450PRO DFC Test Flight
- Thread starter cml001
- Start date
cml001
Well-Known Member
I had a crash mid Dec and had to make repairs... but with the holidays and work.. my trusty Trooper kick'n me to buy a new/used truck(love the Tundra btw).. I never got out to fly. Today I was home sick and decided to get off the couch and finish doin the swash level'n, set up pitch... just programing my bird. I then went outside and spool'd her up. My better half and little man were out in the yard play'n so I got her to film the test flight. This is not only my first video post here on RCH, but also my first YOUTUBE post ever. Anyhow, sick and bored... this is what I came up with.
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well it depends tony.. the sr120, msrx, and the 130x are absolutely awesome here in the hood.... I chase and race cars up and down the block... I ALWAYS WIN!! LOL, it is tight... I can only test and hover the 450 here obviously, but the confined space and power lines make for damn good training with the small birds.. ill have to get video of me fly'n the gauntlet.... weave'n thru the trees and poles... my buddy and I have a blast chase'n each other thru it... anyhow.. thanks for the props!
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my god the type"O"s
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well it depends tony.. the sr120, msrx, and the 130x are absolutely awesome here in the hood.... I chase and race cars up and down the block... I ALWAYS WIN!! LOL, it is tight... I can only test and hover the 450 here obviously, but the confined space and power lines make for damn good training with the small birds.. ill have to get video of me fly'n the gauntlet.... weave'n thru the trees and poles... my buddy and I have a blast chase'n each other thru it... anyhow.. thanks for the props!
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my god the type"O"s
cml001
Well-Known Member
Ok... Got to my spot(some of u may dig this.. I live two blocks from The Augusta National... "The Masters" golf course... They have bought up all the houses round the venue & turned them into field parking lots.. Couple trees but plenty of airspace to fly in.. Haven't been run off yet so I fly there often by myself.. Would take a crowd, but I sneak out there all the time) and ran 8 lipos... Had an issue with high speed flight making the tail bounce... Drop'd the gain on dial #1 & put pitch up comp back to medium.. Easy fix. Then a couple flights in I had a scare. This is probably the third or fourth time it's happened... Upon piro flip style maneuver (I can't do a good piro so I digress) or a hard pitch flip'n & spin'n maneuver I get a sketchy kinda blow out. Hasn't cause a crash yet thank god.. Been a decent altitude upon each incident and able to recover. Anyone else had this with the AR7200BX? No footage as I usual end up fly'n solo... Gotta get the iPhone mounted to my hat or something.
cml001
Well-Known Member
Thanks Derek... One more thing... I used (before last crash & this re-set up) to just slam my rudder right or left for stationary piros... Like a spinning top just zing round and round on a pin!... Now clockwise piros lean back in elevator slightly making me comp with foward stick inputs... Just a little... But counter clockwise lays way back... Any ideas?
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Can't say I've ever run into elevator interaction with piros, or blow outs while doing piro flips.
I have had blow outs in general though and these were my solutions:
1) 550X after replacing stock ESC with a CC ESC, I had major blow out issues. I played with pitch compensation on the tail (Revomix on the 7200BX), to no avail. CC ESC gov settings, no good. If anything both made the problem worse (verified I had it compensating in the right direction). Turned out the PWM and timing advance settings in the ESC had to be adjusted. And heavy load was causing the ESC to go into a protection mode (not current over limit or LVC, more of a timing phase problem). Once I found the right settings it was all good.
2) 550X again, After a great many flights I started pushing harder on some maneuvers and noticed it was fairly easy to blow out the tail on anything that had ail left slide type motion of speed (or piro/turn into such a slide, again at speed). I discovered that ever since the first time I flew it the tail setup was off in one direction. Tail bushing/slider out to the hub was well adjusted, but the slider to the tail case was way short, resulting in compromised tail authority in that direction and a wonky blow out from time to time. I had actually set it up right when I built it, but I brought it to the shop to have one of the guys there look it over (first 'big' heli) and when he went through the setup steps, he redid my tail setup and must have shorted it in that direction. I set it up properly and no issues. Threw on a set of slightly longer CF edge tail blades for a little more oomph, too.
3) 300X, can make it blow out the tail if I pull heavy collective or do fast lefthand slides or leftward ail loops. This is just a limitation of the model from what I can tell.
For what you're describing in the piro flip blow outs, I'd recheck tail setup to make sure you have full range available. Depending on your piro rate and how hard you're hitting collective and cyclic during the maneuver it is possible you are simply stressing the drive train too much (or exceeding the ESC gov's ability to keep up, so you're getting a power dip mid maneuver that is throwing you) and it is blowing out as a result. If you doubt this...
Another possibility, and this would maybe explain the odd elevator interaction you're getting during fast piros: you may have vibration occuring during high rate piros or high stress move involving significant rudder. This vibration may be throwing the 7200BX and inducing some elevator when it isn't expected or desired. This will be very difficult to verify though. You may want to simply try adding some more mounting tape/gel under the 7200bx to see if that solves it. Also check all bearing in the tail (front and back of the boom, as well as in the boom, if possible) and lube them to make sure you aren't getting some high speed vibration out of them.
How reproducible is this problem? Can you do it on demand? Maybe get a video of it if you can.
I have had blow outs in general though and these were my solutions:
1) 550X after replacing stock ESC with a CC ESC, I had major blow out issues. I played with pitch compensation on the tail (Revomix on the 7200BX), to no avail. CC ESC gov settings, no good. If anything both made the problem worse (verified I had it compensating in the right direction). Turned out the PWM and timing advance settings in the ESC had to be adjusted. And heavy load was causing the ESC to go into a protection mode (not current over limit or LVC, more of a timing phase problem). Once I found the right settings it was all good.
2) 550X again, After a great many flights I started pushing harder on some maneuvers and noticed it was fairly easy to blow out the tail on anything that had ail left slide type motion of speed (or piro/turn into such a slide, again at speed). I discovered that ever since the first time I flew it the tail setup was off in one direction. Tail bushing/slider out to the hub was well adjusted, but the slider to the tail case was way short, resulting in compromised tail authority in that direction and a wonky blow out from time to time. I had actually set it up right when I built it, but I brought it to the shop to have one of the guys there look it over (first 'big' heli) and when he went through the setup steps, he redid my tail setup and must have shorted it in that direction. I set it up properly and no issues. Threw on a set of slightly longer CF edge tail blades for a little more oomph, too.
3) 300X, can make it blow out the tail if I pull heavy collective or do fast lefthand slides or leftward ail loops. This is just a limitation of the model from what I can tell.
For what you're describing in the piro flip blow outs, I'd recheck tail setup to make sure you have full range available. Depending on your piro rate and how hard you're hitting collective and cyclic during the maneuver it is possible you are simply stressing the drive train too much (or exceeding the ESC gov's ability to keep up, so you're getting a power dip mid maneuver that is throwing you) and it is blowing out as a result. If you doubt this...
Another possibility, and this would maybe explain the odd elevator interaction you're getting during fast piros: you may have vibration occuring during high rate piros or high stress move involving significant rudder. This vibration may be throwing the 7200BX and inducing some elevator when it isn't expected or desired. This will be very difficult to verify though. You may want to simply try adding some more mounting tape/gel under the 7200bx to see if that solves it. Also check all bearing in the tail (front and back of the boom, as well as in the boom, if possible) and lube them to make sure you aren't getting some high speed vibration out of them.
How reproducible is this problem? Can you do it on demand? Maybe get a video of it if you can.
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cml001
Well-Known Member
Well if feel confident with mechanics... Fresh rebuild on the tail... No gov mode being use as this has the stock align ESC.. I use a v curve of 95 90 95.. And that been good since I first built this bird.. I can not recreate it... And again, piro flips are not realy what id call'm just yet... I'm sketchy w them.. So let's just call them a maneuver.. Lol..It's not like it happens often at all, the blow out. Now the tail dip'n low is my real concern. I don't wanna compensate w stick movement.. I want it back right. I take ur post & try to tweak it a bit & see what I come up with. Thanks a bunch Paul!
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Another possibility on the elevator interaction issue on piros... Is the tail on the boom at perfect vertical. If it is canted CCW or CW on the boom it will put a bit of thrust into the Ele axis. But if that were the case I'd expect you'd have to be making a lot of ele adjustments in hovering too, not just piros.
Make sure you don't have some trim dialed into the ele. And no mix programmed for the model (rudder -> ele would be a weird mix anyway, but worth the check).
Make sure you don't have some trim dialed into the ele. And no mix programmed for the model (rudder -> ele would be a weird mix anyway, but worth the check).
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cml001
Well-Known Member
I went into parameter for rudder set up and found this... Setting the limit I get a red light on setting left stick limit(correct) but a purple light(incorrect) on setting the right stick limit... Gonna correct that & see what happens... Can't believe I missed this on set up the first go.. Thanks for the help guys... Suppose to start snow'n here in about an hour so I won't get a test flight in until the weekend most likely.. I'll let ya kno.. Thanks again!
Ken Jackson
Active Member
Cool hovering. Nice house too. yeah get some way to mount your camera phone or a camera. It would come in handly while describing a problem like that. I've never flown the 7200 so no suggestions here. I'm a 3GX guy soon to be flying an IKon.
Ken
Good to see your face always good to actually see people you occasionally chat with.
Ken
Good to see your face always good to actually see people you occasionally chat with.
cml001
Well-Known Member
Thanks ken... That's actually my neighbors.. I'm left of that house.. But I've got a large tree so I launch out of my drive & buzz their yard... Kool people, they sit back and watch.. Good people... Ok guys.. Call me stupid.. I had the piro comp setting on blue and should have been red.. I don't kno how I missed it but I did. I'm an idiot! Took a break from chores and played with it a sec and figured it out... Feel'n pretty dumb right now.. She is back to zing'g like no other now!! But I thank u all for the help and comments. I'll try to return the favor as I can... Back to grout'n this bath!
Ooops. 
At least now we all know what happens when you set it wrong: It induces unexpected bank (ail or ele). Makes sense since the compensation swash rotation will follow (and lead) the piro direction instead of counter rotating the swash so it remains fixed attitude relative to the pilot as it should.
At least now we all know what happens when you set it wrong: It induces unexpected bank (ail or ele). Makes sense since the compensation swash rotation will follow (and lead) the piro direction instead of counter rotating the swash so it remains fixed attitude relative to the pilot as it should.
cml001
Well-Known Member
Yes and it's easily to miss if u only turn the heli a small amount viewing the swash on set up... But a dumb happening on my part... So yes... If she won't stay level on a piro... Check the piro comp setting... Last setting on the Beast set up menu.. Thanks again guys for all ur help!