500 Align Trex 500-XT

Rob Lancaster

Well-Known Member
Bingo Rob, I just went back and looked at your AR8000. Its DSM2. My bad for not seeing that before. But they say the microbeast is compatible with DSMX or DSM2 receivers with SRXL output so maybe it. Wouldn't hurt to update to a late model receiver anyway.

Yup, my thoughts exactly.
Ok, here's what we know so far. The RX needs to be updated. Ok, but here's the thing. The RX's available may not be compatible with my GEN 1 DX8. Doe!!! I need further research to make sure. I know the telemitry won't work. That's ok, but what about the rest? I think a new TX may also be in my future if I want this babee to fly. I got trade-in, in my mind if I have too. Don't want to but..........................................
Thoughts everybody?...
 

fran11784

Goblin 380 Supporter
Well I think as long as the transmitter is DSMX, should work. Obviously, it won’t be able to do forward programming or anything like that but no issues there, right?
 
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Rob Lancaster

Well-Known Member
Folks!
I found out I don't need a new transmitter, humm, kina a bummer, ha!
I'm looking at these two receivers. One is a main RX without remote RX. The second one is just a remote RX. Spektrum AR8020T DSMX 8-Channel Telemetry Receiver | Horizon Hobby ................ Spektrum SRXL2 DSMX Remote Serial Telemetry Receiver | Horizon Hobby .........

Here's the thing.
The MicroBeast manual says a 500 size or larger size heli needs a full on RX, not just a satellite RX. First link.
The second link, $45.00 job has no FailSafe, say what?
Even if I can't use the forward programming and telemetry, I think the AR8360T DSMX 8-Channel AS3X & SAFE Telemetry Receiver, may be the right choice.
What do you guys think about my choices?
 

RandyDSok

Well-Known Member
Everything below is speculation and opinion only... since I own Futaba stuff... ( assisted flying stuff are add-on boards if you use Futaba )

I think Spektrum's AS3X is the "bee's knee's" ... very cool technology that I feel all radio companies should have some sort of version of in their receivers. With my airplanes, I never needed it, but with a heli it'd probably be a smart idea to have for me. If I were to add it to one of my airplanes, it would need to be an advanced one that I could put the plane into say knife edge and it'd help keep it there... or some other similar situations.

I think the AS3X feature alone makes the receiver you listed with it... almost a no brainer ( even if you don't use it, it'd be nice for a beginner pilot to have access too ).

As for any type of failsafe mode on any brand receiver ... all of the versions I've read about are always a compromise. Still, I think I hate Spektrum's method to drop the throttle to low/off is the worst. At best, my opinion is a like/hate relationship :), there is no love for me here. I think Spektrum has a "smart" safe that keeps the model level with the ground but I've only heard about it and know nothing else. If it ( smart safe ) works as I think, that would be nice but I suspect it would only work with something that also has the AS3X features since some type of gyro would be required to know what is level.
 

fran11784

Goblin 380 Supporter
Well just remember you won't be able to use AS3X for two reasons. First, it's for fixed wing and second you need forward programming to set it up. IMO, the 8020T would be fine unless you plan to use it on an airplane someday. The receiver part of the 8360 would work I guess but seems like a waste. In the end you're going to want a satellite to go with the AR8020T so you're up to 130 bucks anyway. Now can you run just the receiver with no sat? I suppose but I wouldn't. Thats just me. Just throwing this out there. Check out Lemon RX. I have them in a bunch of machines no issues. For 50 bucks you can get a receiver and a sat. O, one more thing, when you bind your setting fail safe.
 

Rob Lancaster

Well-Known Member
Excellent guys, all great input.
Here's a bit more that closes the deal.
According to Tony over at Horizon .. The 4651T is a dual diversity, full range receiver. It is not like the 9745 satellite receivers which are a singular antenna. If an AR8020T system is used, you may find that the serial connection will not allow channels 1-8 to pass along the SRXL2 connection, the cyclic channels can be connected manually with the 3 wire connection lead that comes with the microbeast.

So the winner of the competition is? The 4651T............
I just ordered it and we'll continue this mission soon.
Thanks guys!

Oh, hey I almost forgot to ask you Randy.
Does your Futaba TX have a model match type feature in it? And can it receive telemetry? Fill me in on what your using.
Thanks again...
 

RandyDSok

Well-Known Member
Oh, hey I almost forgot to ask you Randy.
Does your Futaba TX have a model match type feature in it? And can it receive telemetry? Fill me in on what your using.

I have the Futaba 8FG ( H model with the smooth throttle by default which still has a ratchet but isn't engaged ). I'll try to answer your questions... but I'm also going to have some fun doing it...

Model match ... If I recall, Spektrum came up with that feature and name ... Futaba users didn't need it since they don't forget which models go with which aircraft ( ah hem, cough cough ). :hdbng:

The 8FG has a transmitter ID that the receiver records and only will bind to that ID after the initial binding but a model match feature hadn't been thought of by anyone yet ( at least not released yet ). The 8FG is claimed ( by Futaba ) to be the first to support flybarless heli's and it has an internal model memory of 20 but that is extended to infinite with the included SD card reader. I don't believe a radio that supports telemetry had been released at the time they had made my radio... those came out shortly after, perhaps a year or two later. Another cool feature it had, it was released as an 8ch radio and later upgraded to support up to 14ch.

I can only think of two telemetry features I'd probably use... Primarily the battery capacity/condition would be what I'd like to have the most. Second to that and not as important would be receiver radio signal strength although I never fly out of view of my model... but it'd still be nice to check on occasionally. If the data is recordable and you could look it over after a flight by copying it to the SD card and evaluate it on a PC, that could have it's uses as well especially after some incident happened.

I do think the model match feature is a nice one. I don't recall any time I ever had chosen the wrong model or forgot to switch to the next model I was going to fly... but brain farts do happen and it'd be nice to have something "have my back".
 

RandyDSok

Well-Known Member
I almost forgot to talk about the dual diversity antenna's...

Most ( I don't think all had it ) of Futaba's receivers released at that time had that feature. Futaba, in response to Spektrum's satellites they'd released, said that the satellite feature was nice but the dual diversity answered most of the same issues as long as the antenna's were long enough to provide reception from multiple directions. Futaba had receivers that had shorter antenna's and longer ones for larger model aircraft.

Addendum ... On the antenna's... the coated part is actually a coax and the exposed portion is the actual antenna itself.

The satellite still has an advantage since you can place it further away. So dual diversity is a nice feature that in a lot of cases covers the needs that a satellite provides but it doesn't cover as many.
 

Rob Lancaster

Well-Known Member
I have the Futaba 8FG ( H model with the smooth throttle by default which still has a ratchet but isn't engaged ). I'll try to answer your questions... but I'm also going to have some fun doing it...

Model match ... If I recall, Spektrum came up with that feature and name ... Futaba users didn't need it since they don't forget which models go with which aircraft ( ah hem, cough cough ). :hdbng:

The 8FG has a transmitter ID that the receiver records and only will bind to that ID after the initial binding but a model match feature hadn't been thought of by anyone yet ( at least not released yet ). The 8FG is claimed ( by Futaba ) to be the first to support flybarless heli's and it has an internal model memory of 20 but that is extended to infinite with the included SD card reader. I don't believe a radio that supports telemetry had been released at the time they had made my radio... those came out shortly after, perhaps a year or two later. Another cool feature it had, it was released as an 8ch radio and later upgraded to support up to 14ch.

I can only think of two telemetry features I'd probably use... Primarily the battery capacity/condition would be what I'd like to have the most. Second to that and not as important would be receiver radio signal strength although I never fly out of view of my model... but it'd still be nice to check on occasionally. If the data is recordable and you could look it over after a flight by copying it to the SD card and evaluate it on a PC, that could have it's uses as well especially after some incident happened.

I do think the model match feature is a nice one. I don't recall any time I ever had chosen the wrong model or forgot to switch to the next model I was going to fly... but brain farts do happen and it'd be nice to have something "have my back".

The reason I asked was because when I first got into this awesome hobby, I had a friend that was just getting into to it too and had a Align 500 and 600 flybar birds. His TX was a Futaba digital 6 channel but I forget the exact model. As I remember, he wanted instant gratification. After two crashes, he rebuilt both of them. The next thing I know is he crashed the 600 bad because he said he was on the wrong model setting with the TX. Can that really happen, or is it pilot error again. HA! Next thing I know, he sells everything and I was on my own. That's when I bought my DX8. Because it had (Model Match).

Oh hey, about telemetry, I heartily agree with you on that.

On to the adendim. Now you've done it..
Aren't those tiny coaxial cables cool that their using for the antennas.. Yup for sure the li'll wires sticking out the them- li'll gray wires are indeed the radiators and or receiver elements of the RX/TX.

Kina brings me back a while.
Antennae are so important to the mix. Way more than the average man knows.
Not to get off topic to far, enjoy what we learned throughout the years. Antennae rule!!!

The Coaxile Phased Array nearly sent us both to the coo, coo house. Seven months of absolute tuning chaos and then one day, BOOM, I figured out what was wrong. I did this and that and we had a perfect SWR of 1:0 to 1.... Hint, it was all in the feed point. Bro Tom freaked out at the instant transformation from completely uselessness and something you'd never connect to an RF amp, to perfect tuning, whew! Nice..................

The KHKU project's antenna was a bit easier. Many less radiators and lower frequency meant easier tuning. But nevertheless,, the tuning was critical to the final amps 50 Ohm match to the 50 Ohm antenna. Remember this was a multiplex broadcast and that at the time had its own set of problems, LOL!! But we beat it and were jam'n at 107.3 mHz FM stereo for years! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now the antenna shown in the first frame, that's a UHF Coaxial Collinear Phased Array. We used that babee for short range com. We took a 2.3 watt handheld transceiver, with a SMA antenna connector, that allows for the removal of the little short whip antenna, and hooked it up to a nice base antenna. Wow! After that we started to learn about knife edge refraction. That is to say, sometimes when we were testing range, we were facing a 2000 foot mountain between the two TX's,, and wow we had great performance. The folks at the time with the Cell Phones, couldn't believe it because they had no reception in the valley where we were at, HA!

There is so much more to this story, but I think I go to bed before my brain gets' soar....
 

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RandyDSok

Well-Known Member
The next thing I know is he crashed the 600 bad because he said he was on the wrong model setting with the TX. Can that really happen, or is it pilot error again

I can certainly see it happening... that is why they push to follow a preflight checklist so much both with models and larger aircraft. I wouldn't let something like that stop me but other factors keep me from it... time and money mostly. As for the "is it pilot error" question, of course it is... it's the pilot's responsibility to verify everything before they take off. Having model match doesn't remove the responsibility but it does back it up to help ensure it doesn't happen.

I only tinkered in the 10-11 meter bands and never fully got into radios. It wasn't from a lack of interest, it was a matter of only being able to afford certain toys and radios lost out to the other interests I also wanted to do.
 

Rob Lancaster

Well-Known Member
I only tinkered in the 10-11 meter bands and never fully got into radios.

Wow, I'll bet them antenne were large. The best thing about the lower frequencies is that they're relatively easy to tune. But on the other side of the coin, they're much larger. And with size you have more weight. Also the larger beam antennas need to be way higher or as many wavelengths you can get off the ground. Oh, and theirs the wind, yikes... Omni directional inverted -Vs- were always a good cheap and easier alternative.

The antennas shown in the plans above, are assembled to within a 6 millimeter tolerances. Yup, up at those UHF frequencies, everything has to be neat and clean. No mutilations in the coax near your connectors and you need to watch the spacing between the elements and on and on like making sure you terminate the transmission line from the antenna. (all done at the antennas' feed point)

Now can you imagine at 2.4 gigs where our RC radios operate at? Oh boy, just forget about it already........................... Brother Tom is working on micro impedance stips that are etched onto a PCB. He has already made 3 successful 50 ohm long strips. These 50 ohm strips can be etched to various lengths and used to couple different components together in a radio TX/RX... You don't want all these impedance bumps all over the place, LOL.......

Anywho, I'm waiting for the RX to come in so I can get a different blinking LED pattern on the MicroBeast. I did confirm it has v5.2 firmware. But that's it..............
 

RandyDSok

Well-Known Member
It is recommended to position them at 90° from each other because of phase polarity reasons ... but where the receiver ends up being mounted would indicate where to point them since you want to position them in a placement where you will be seen better on that side of the aircraft the most.
 

Rob Lancaster

Well-Known Member
It is recommended to position them at 90° from each other because of phase polarity reasons ... but where the receiver ends up being mounted would indicate where to point them since you want to position them in a placement where you will be seen better on that side of the aircraft the most.
Thanks again buddy! Off I go!
 

Rob Lancaster

Well-Known Member
Thanks again buddy! Off I go!
Oh, ho, ho, Rob, not so fast.
Here's what I hope is the final solution to my setup problem. Even my version manual was vague with the proper wiring between the Beast and the RX. It did show an adapter or two, that IS NEEDED for my kind of setup, and I couldn't find one until now. Beastx Microbeast SRXL2 Adapter Cable BXA76405Shop ALIGN Parts, OMP Hobby, OXY, Beastx, neXt, on AlignTrexShop

I did find a older video of a guy with the exact Trex 500X trying for two months to figure out what I'm trying to do now. Because the adapter wasn't available at that time, he figured out the proper 3 wire placement and made his own. Fortunately the adapter is now available and I'm going to order it. Now that should do it. LOL.... :arms:

Hey guys, Is there some way to get the Beast guys to update their manuals?? All future buyers will suffer the same fate if the don't.
 

fran11784

Goblin 380 Supporter
Pretty much everything you need is on Wiki.beastx.com. They keep that updated. The stuff Align gives you is ancient. You can use the cable that comes with the 4651 if you swap the wires around. I never liked doing that either.
 

Rob Lancaster

Well-Known Member
You can use the cable that comes with the 4651 if you swap the wires around. I never liked doing that either.
Yeah, that's what the guy in the video I saw did.
Thankfully, the proper adapter is now available and we can just plug it in easy and right the first time. That is to say, I hope I can move forward to the next step.
 
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