Cable Modem/router Question

[bigone5500]

Howdy folks! Hope all are well this evening. My question today involves new networking equipment and cable modem. I currently have a 400Mbps internet plan but can't get near that speed due to my equipment being old. I'm about to purchase a Netgear Nighthawk CM1200-100NAS cable modem and want to know if anyone here has used something called link aggregation. I understand that I have to have compatible hardware to use it but am unsure if there may be something I have to pay for from suddenlink. I'll be getting a Netgear Nighthawk AX8 WiFi6 router in the future which supports link aggregation. I understand I can use two ports to get up to 2Gbps speeds but if I only pay for 1Gbps then how can this work?

 

[Tony]

Hey Jared! Good to see you here bro.

Okay, the Nighthawk CM1200 has "DOCSIS 3.1" which will support up to a 2Gbps connection. Of course, this depends on your internet connection and if you need this. I would get the 1Gbps version personally. Now, for the speeds that are stated, This is on a Wired connection, and wireless will, in most cases, be much slower. There is what is called "MIMO" which had dedicated paths for wireless that can make individual devices to work faster, but there are only so many lanes.

As for Link Aggregation, the ONLY reason you would need this is if you had a SECOND internet link coming into your house. You would pay twice as much for internet. Doing this would theoretically double your connection speed by splitting packets between each of the links, but IMO, it's not worth it unless you are running a server that needs a dedicated gigabit network.

Let me put it this way. I have a fiber connection in my house and have internet speeds that are 1000/1000 Gbps up/down. I have NEVER even come close to saturating this network with the exception of large files from really good servers, which is rare. Normal every day work (yes, I work from home and have for quite a while now) with everyone else (I have two houses on my internet with 4+ people always watching Netflix, YouTube and the like, and I have never noticed anything slowing me down.

My network (LAN) is only a gigabit network, so when I am downloading those large files, and I"m actually able to download at a gigabit, I'm saturating the network. I do have plans of future proofing by installing all 10Gbps on my network, but that is a ways off still.

Suffice it to say, even with a 400Mbps link (about 50 MBps), unless you are downloading very large files all the time, I can bet that you will never see any indication that anyone is on the network. With normal use, we are pulling about 200Mbps on my network at the max.

All of that to say, unless you are wanting redundancy, link aggregation is not worth it. Just get a good modem, make sure that all copper from the modem to the pole is brand new and make sure it is at least RG6. Anything smaller than that will reduce your speeds.

Hope that massive post answered your question.

 

[bigone5500]

Thanks Tony. I wondered about the aggregation part. I couldn't really find any good info. I have gone ahead and ordered the CM1200 version just in case I may want to be able to use any features it provides in the future. I think maybe next week I may order the router. I got a little overtime this week so I may use that to get it. Who knows...

 

[RandyDSok]

I wish I'd seen this thread last night... I would have mentioned that even though the cable modem states it's compatible with all providers... it doesn't mean all providers will support and allow you to use it. It doesn't matter if it's DSL or cable... the ISP must still maintain the end device ( ie modem ) and be able to control its settings from their side and because of that ( and they can't do this for unlimited devices ) they typically limit which specific devices they will allow to connect to them. You may want to call your ISP and verify if they support that specific model just in case.

I got the Netgear Nighthawk RAX4 ... and I'm pretty happy with it, check out it's spec's vs the one you mentioned and see if it covers your needs, it may save you a little money if you aren't going to fully utilize everything included in the RAX8. The RAX8 does have a quad core processor ( mine is dual core ) and it supports more total Wifi bandwidth between the devices it's providing connections with. It also has 6 ethernet ports instead of the typical 4 ports that I have on mine. I typically never have more than 3 wired devices connected and 4 wifi devices.... so the model I have covers everything I think I'll need for the next few years.

 

[bigone5500]

What ever router I get will need to be able to punch through some pretty tough walls. I live in a house my father-in-law built 57 years ago and the walls inside and out are solid brick. Double brick at that. And I have a steel roof. My Linksys E4200 just doesn't have the power to get to all rooms I need it in. I purchased a Netgear extender a while back but am not super excited about it. Maybe if I get some CAT6 cable and connect it to my the extender would be better but as of now, the performance is so-so. I just need a good WiFi signal to about 25' through walls.

 

[Tony]

For a house that has dense walls, I would definitely run copper and do a "mesh" network. I know Asus has this option, not sure on Netgear though. But, you can create your own wifi hot spots, just remember to turn off DHCP on all but the first router to keep from double NAT'ing.

 

[bigone5500]

Oh crap! Netgear Orbi mesh systems are expensive. I don't understand why this new wifi stuff is $400+. $700 for an Orbi system. I don't need wifi that bad. LOL!

 

[RandyDSok]

Having a stronger signal on your router doesn't help actually... the device you are receiving it with must also be able to reach back to the router. So that isn't the answer.

I also don't see much of a reason for a mesh network... just use two routers ( only one with DCHP enabled as mentioned ) and set both up with the same wifi ( SSID )name and password... your devices will connect to the one that has the best signal. I would run a wire if you are able to, then signal strength from the first to the second router isn't an issue any longer allowing you to separate them farther apart giving your wifi a wider area they work within.

IMO, the "Mesh" thing is just a bunch of marketing crap to sound good and charge more for the components. At work, the network is setup across 5 stories with an untold number of access points as well as having two remote long distance routes to a couple of offsite locations... and no mesh is needed or wanted. Each AP has at least two working SSID's with several having another when a client wanted a unique SSID to connect to and they all end up on their own separate and unique private networks ( VLAN ) despite using the same AP network depending what username/password they connected with.

 

[RandyDSok]

I should probably add... that if you do happen to go with a mesh network option... get a tri-band and not just a dual band setup. This allows one band to be used for the back haul connection so it doesn't affect the other two bands being used for devices.

 

[Tony]

Yea, there is a good reason why I do not have the AI Mesh in my house (Asus's version). It's easier to just run a wire and plug it in, disable dhcp on the second and (as I forgot to mention earlier that Randy called out), set the SSID the same as the first router.

 

[bigone5500]

I got my new cable modem in yesterday and it only took an hour to get it working (provisioning problem). The one I have has two ports on the back (4 total) that can be combined to get up to 2Gbps. I currently have my laptop plugged into port 1 and my router in port 2. I get full speed on my laptop and the slow router lets everyone else have 200Mbps. I guess the modem must have a built in DHCP???

 

[RandyDSok]

I doubt the modem has DHCP on it... it's probably your provider providing up too a certain number of IP's which would make their networking easier if they only have to maintain their own server instead of their server and each users hardware also.

For security reasons... I'd recommend plugging into your router which will have a NAT firewall and help protect your laptop better than being in the open on your ISP's network.

 

[bigone5500]

I don't understand how they can give my laptop and router an IP. I always thought the modem got its own IP and then the router did its magic for all other devices connected to it. I have a firewall installed on my laptop so i'm pretty confident it's ok. ...maybe??

 

[RandyDSok]

I can suggest best practices and info based on my own knowledge I've gathered over the last 30 years of working on computers... it's up to you after that.

 

[Tony]

Modems convert the internet into something you can obtain at your house. For example, take coax cable and split it into TV signals and internet signals and only provide you what you want.

A Router routes the packets coming in to the correct device. It also assigns internal IP addresses (192.xxx.xxx.xxx, or 10.x.x.x for example) to each of your devices that connect, and that IP lease (DHCP Lease) is mapped to a specific MAC address (unique identifier for each electronic device). As I stated DHCP is a lease, and they do expire and renew.

From your ISP, they likely only provide a WAN (Wide Area Network... Internet) IP address. Your internal system is your LAN (Local Area Network). Setting up a router AFTER your modem will keep you from being able to directly connect things to the internet without protection. A router is also a firewall that keeps you safe. If it is open to the world, guess what, there is a website out there that does nothing but sniff out open networks like this and it is publicly searchable. Legal? Eh... gray area from what I hear, but it is out there.

Definitely put a router on your network.

 

[bigone5500]

Makes sense to me. Thanks.

 

[RandyDSok]

Trying to explain networking basics is not an easy job... that's why I just gave the info that was needed but not the explanation of why. I'd recommend doing searches on modem, network, gateway, firewall, router, switch ( old school was hub but isn't used now ) and node, or a combination of those... only remember that a lot of explanations you find on the internet are using analogies ( which I often use also ) to try and explain it and aren't always exactly correct. I'll try to be brief in the following but I suspect this will become a wall of words instead ( ie long ).

A node... is simple, it's a device on a network. Each node will get an IP address so it can communicate with the other nodes.

Most cable and DSL modems are technically modem/gateways, ie a single node with two functions that work together, this is the most typical type you'll see but there are others out there. Modems translate the different protocols so everything can talk to each other.. ie from the cable network to an ethernet network and visa/versa in this case. Gateways join different network segments and are on each end point of a network. The ISP will assign an IP address to each gateway ( one on each end ) and will also assign at least one additional IP address for an added device to connect to the network with. If a gateway has more than one ethernet port, a switch is usually used to help split and direct the network traffic. Each node in this type, will get an IP address assigned at the ISP ( depending on how many they will allow ) from their DHCP server and each one will be directly accessible from anywhere on the internet.

Side note... Notice in the above example, I didn't mention firewall, router or DHCP server. That is because they are typically not used in that type of device, ie a modem/gateway. So any device ( ie computer or other device ) can be accessed directly from anywhere on the internet. This mean that hackers have a direct route to your computer ( device ) and can try to directly hack past any protection you may have on that device. So even if you have a firewall installed on your computer, a hacker can attempt to bypass it if it has an exploit that allows them by. If you open a port on your computer in order to share a file or printer with other devices on your network, then you also open it the world. So you'd never be able to fully utilize your network for any type of sharing unless you want to open yourself to other potential attacks.

This is where routers and firewalls come into play. They allow you to share stuff on the inside of them without opening yourself up to attacks from outside of your network. Most of these for home or SOHO use are combination router/firewalls and use NAT translation to split a single IP address ( given to you by your ISP ) up into several IP addresses using a DHCP server that is built into the device. If you need to share a device to the outside world, most firewalls allow you to port forward a port or put a single device out in a DMZ zone and keep it separate from the rest of your internal network devices.

If your modem/gateway also includes WiFi ... they will typically have a router/firewall/DHCP also included. Since these will also typically have NAT translation built in ( for added security )... you can't add your own router that also has DHCP without disabling the DHCP otherwise you end up double NAT'ing and will have network problems because of it. You pretty much have to get "into the weeds" to understand why double NAT'ing doesn't work on IP addresses... so I'll pass on that subject here.

I'm going to skip talking much about routers and switches ( or hubs for that matter )... Basically speaking, they are just directing the network traffic between the devices. Hubs are just stupid repeaters, when they get an IP broadcast, they just repeat that same broadcast to every port they have. Switches are a little smarter because they know what IP made the broadcast and to which IP they want to send it too, so they don't have to send useless broadcasts on the other ports that don't have the recipient device on it. Routers are switches that have rules built into them to help direct where the traffic is sent.

Firewalls are important to mention a bit on also. They, simply said, have a set of rules that block or allow certain traffic in whichever direction it is going in. Firewalls right after the gateway primarily block the whole internet from directly accessing any device on your computer unless you have allowed it or if that traffic was originally requested from some device on your own network. This is your primary protection against a hacker getting in. Internal firewalls on your devices are important just in case a hacker did breach your primary security. One example would be if you got a computer infected somehow, if you have other internal firewalls it may block the spread of the malware to other computers or a hacker from reaching other computers on your internal network because they had breached security somehow on one of your devices.


If that seemed a bit long... just consider that was just the basics and a general description at best. Networking can be pretty complex to say the least. I just described and basically explained only two relatively common network scenario's and got nowhere near what'd you see in others like seen in enterprise networks.

 

[bigone5500]

Thanks for that post. There is much more than I need to know except for I just need a router. I have plugged my laptop back into the router for now.

I appreciate the help and suggestions!

 

[bigone5500]

I found the Rax80 router I want on ebay. Factory refurbished with 90 day warranty. $230 compared to around $300 to $350.

 

[Tony]

Did ya order it yet? lol