The Chinese, Helping Or Hurting The Hobby???

Tony

Staff member
Tony submitted a new Article:

The Chinese, Helping Or Hurting The Hobby???

I have been thinking about something here lately and I thought i would write up an article on it to get your opinions. This is just a debate and nothing serious, so please keep it clean.

As you know, for the past year or so I have been fighting everything I have ordered from over seas. From helicopters to electronics, they have not done me well. For an example, lets talk about the HK helicopter kits. The carbon fiber is chipping, the aluminum is not drilled straight and the bearings feel like there is sand in them. And HK is not the only one, I have gotten the same thing from EXI as well, even though it's the same helicopter.

Then there are the electronics. I ordered a 200a ESC for my 600 just to watch it almost burn down my house when sparks flew from it the first time I powered it up. I have had servos that say one thing on them, and then I get them and they are only half of what they claim.

What about the quality of the metal they use in not only the parts, but also the screws? I almost lost an eye when a tail blade came flying off my helicopter and just missed my ear by inches. I know many others that have had this same issue.

How about those cameras? some work, some don't. but they are still pumping them out as fast as they can.

So my question is why do we support those that we know are making second rate products? Is the money savings really enough to compensate for the loss of time and possibly blood from these second rate products?

So with staying on topic of this thread, do you think having such cheap electronics and kits is actually helping the hobby? Do you think it's worth the risk to the hobby to continue buying these products because of the money that we save but have to put a little more time into?

Your opinion matters, let us know how you feel about china ripping off companies like Align and just copying their products with substandard quality.

Read more about this article here...
 
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Keith

Member
With out the Chinese input, especially Hobby King I would be no where near as far advanced as I am now. I have a 8/9 channel radio that I have modded with features equaling $1000+ systems which cost less the $200. I have spare motors, ESCs, connectors, nuts and bolts and lots more bits and pieces on hand that gets me out of trouble. I've had failures but mainly due to my errors. Some electronics could be better protected from reversed polarity etc, But I was as much to blame so you learn by your mistakes. They are cheap anyway so I order more than I need. I needed an ultrasonic recently. They were on ebay for less than $4, I ordered 5. Just as well cos I burnt two out the first day.
The only thing I've ever had fail was a pin vice I got for a couple of dollars. Could not center the drill bit, so it was useless. It makes a good center punch though so it was not a complete loss. Guess I have been lucky, but as I said I always get extra. Whenever I order ESCs for a quad I always order 5. If one fails I have it covered. If four are good I have one spare for a foamie...
 

breeze400

Spagetti Pilot
I for one do not like dealing with the Chinease parts. They take forever to ship. About the only thing I'll buy anymore is batteries! Even then if they do not have them in the US whse, I won't buy then cause of shipping time. I just don't like there products. But I've allways believed that you get hat you pay for in anything in life. You might save a few bucks up front but you allways pay in the end!!
 

RCD

Glencairn Drone
I generally don't buy Chinese products but their are a couple of exceptions:.
I really like the SG-90 servos! They are like $3 and work extremely well!
Also, the Exceed Rc ESC's are awesome! They are super cheep and have no flawz
Lastly, the SKySurfer is the best Chinese plane! Nothing on it is bad quality!
 

Tony

Staff member
I have to chime in on this one. the centering of those servos is not that great, but for $3, what do you expect. The ESC's although I do own quite a few of them, compare them on a helicopter to the Align ESC's. You can "think" you have it on a slow startup, but that jerk that you always get says otherwise. My Align 450 spools up so slow and even, it's almost like a real helicopter spooling up. I love it. And you know my points on foam planes lmao. But, even the americans are jumping on that boat which I"m not happy about hahaha.
 

murankar

Staff member
Well I for on am mixed, only because a lot of parts are designed elsewhere and built in China. On the ESC level; I have yet to fly the Scorpion Commander 45 amp, but on the spool up (did a couple spool ups to 1/4 stick but that's it) I agree with Tony on this one. The Dynum I was using had that slight jerk once the throttle started started to engage, for a lack of a better phrase. The Scorpion has a soft start that is so smooth.

Really it depends on the product that you are buying. It would appear that the name brand stuff out of China is way better than the stuff designed and built in China.
 

Tony

Staff member
There are some good responses here. One thing that I'm seeing is the fact that everything is "cheap". Such as what Keith stated, you have to buy more than what you want so that you know you will get correct working items. This to me is just nuts. Why would you spend your hard earned money on something that you don't think will work? This was one of the key reasons I have decided to NOT buy from China any more. IMO, China is killing this hobby because of the crap quality of products they are putting out. Yes, they are getting kits and parts out there cheaper than we can in the USA, but that is because we actually pay out people what they are worth and put out good quality. Same with Japan and Taiwan. There are others, those are just the countries I can think of right off the top of my head.

Lets hear some more responses!
 

heli-maniac

New Member
After buying my Align 3gx 450 pro i will not buy any more of the cheep knock off
i lost alot of money buying that junk and almost quit the hobby for the fact off poor quality parts
 

Lee

Well-Known Member
On the other side, hobby wing 120hv is the esc of choice for 700 heli over the expensive castle creations 160hv made in USA that's been causing lots of issues. So not all bad.
 

murankar

Staff member
Yes China is hurting the hobby by releasing sub standard quality parts. At the same time they are also putting out some higher quality products. I had to re-read the about us page on scorpion's web site. There newest facility is located in Hong Kong, does this count as China. It is claimed on the packaging that the products are designed in Germany.

If I am not mistaken Align is designed and manufactured in Taiwan, well so is Savox. This would maybe explain why the align servos and Savox servos are so close, who knows maybe Savox really makes a re-branded servo. Now for MKS again same the last two Manufacturers, made in Taiwan. OK; here's one how about the two heli manufacturers that I have been drooling over the last month or so. MS Heli, designed and manufactured in Italy, Miniature Aircraft made in the USA. Compass, the runner up to the goblin is Deutsch but the Company is spread across America, Asia, Europe and Australia; since it says Asia one may have to conclude that China is in there somewhere. Goblin is made or headquartered in Italy, I had to throw this in the mix. I case no one knew SAB now has a 630 class heli that is $900 and it is not the lime green also out of stock. I know this is just on the heli side, that's because I do not know the other vehicles all that well.

So is China killing the industry, maybe, maybe not. When I bought my heli, I had very low expectations on it already. I knew that when I got the kit for almost half the value of quality stuff, I also knew that I may have issues. I was also educated by many videos on youtube of other peoples experiences. I bought my equipment based on what you all said would make a good beginner setup. I figured this would get me flying until I am able to con the wife in letting me buy a quality bird. Now that I am almost complete on the electronics it should not be that hard. "Come on baby it's only $279.00 plus shipping and blades". I think the 2 people that it hurts the most are those with high expectations for high quality/low price and those who have not been rescued by RC-Help.com. Ignorance for some is bliss and those folks don't deserve to have a high quality machine to begin with.

Hobbyking is a whole other topic. I have only made one purchase from them. I already expected my experience to be bad so when I got my stuff I was excited. I got the back light kit for the TH9X and two 1.5 mm hex head drivers. Both Items still work as if I just opened them. I have beat the hell out of the hex drivers and they have yet to start stripping.

Prognosis: It's hit or miss, but mostly misses for China. Yes better products await in other sovereign nations with a price tag. This hobby is not cheap and it pays to learn super quick or learn to take your time.

-------PS-----------
I have not proof read this as of yet. I will be editing for correction after I post. i will be able to see the whole post easier that way.
 
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breeze400

Spagetti Pilot
Well all I can say is Taiwan is not China! You have to remember if a company is located outside of China, and there manufacturing is taking place in china. The Chinese company has to do the manufacturing to the specks of the parent co. When the Chinese copy someone's design, there isn't any quality controll. So they can cheeper up the product. Just because GM or Ford are American company's dosen't meen that all of there cars or parts are made in the USA!
 

someguyinsandy

Crash Test Dummy
I think that the availibility of low priced "beginner" kits and such actually helps. My experience has been generally positive. Over the years I have looked into getting into the RC hobby, but the prices had kept me only looking. A coworker and I recently began discussing RC planes and I decided to buy one. He gave me his best advice on the "best" plane to start with so with that in mind I stopped by the local hobby shop.

When I got there I found that plane he suggested was simply a foam kit minus electronics, a transmitter, or even a battery. A little quick math had me looking at other options and I ended up with a Super Cub kit. $200 and everything was included (or so I thought).

I won't go into all the gory details, but needless to say I have upgraded that kit. This included purchasing servos, a better TX and tons of additional bits and pieces. All of those purchases helped to keep the local hobby shops lights on, as well as supporting the various manufacturers in the business of supplying parts.

Did I buy some stuff I didn't need, or was of a lower quality than I would have liked? Yes. But, that is part of the game and I understand that. Along the way I have learned a lot about what I do and don't need and am making smarter purchses now. Oh and by the way... That kit I originally intended to purchase... I now have the additional parts necessary to get it into the air without the up front sticker shock that kept me from pulling the trigger in the first place.

With that I vote for "helping"

Thanks.
 

Tony

Staff member
On the other side, hobby wing 120hv is the esc of choice for 700 heli over the expensive castle creations 160hv made in USA that's been causing lots of issues. So not all bad.

But is hobbywing designed in China? I truly don't know and if they are, then cool deal. Another thing I would like to know, is their slow start for the heli's like scorpion or Align?

Yes China is hurting the hobby by releasing sub standard quality parts. At the same time they are also putting out some higher quality products. I had to re-read the about us page on scorpion's web site. There newest facility is located in Hong Kong, does this count as China. It is claimed on the packaging that the products are designed in Germany.

If I am not mistaken Align is designed and manufactured in Taiwan, well so is Savox. This would maybe explain why the align servos and Savox servos are so close, who knows maybe Savox really makes a re-branded servo. Now for MKS again same the last two Manufacturers, made in Taiwan. OK; here's one how about the two heli manufacturers that I have been drooling over the last month or so. MS Heli, designed and manufactured in Italy, Miniature Aircraft made in the USA. Compass, the runner up to the goblin is Deutsch but the Company is spread across America, Asia, Europe and Australia; since it says Asia one may have to conclude that China is in there somewhere. Goblin is made or headquartered in Italy, I had to throw this in the mix. I case no one knew SAB now has a 630 class heli that is $900 and it is not the lime green also out of stock. I know this is just on the heli side, that's because I do not know the other vehicles all that well.

So is China killing the industry, maybe, maybe not. When I bought my heli, I had very low expectations on it already. I knew that when I got the kit for almost half the value of quality stuff, I also knew that I may have issues. I was also educated by many videos on youtube of other peoples experiences. I bought my equipment based on what you all said would make a good beginner setup. I figured this would get me flying until I am able to con the wife in letting me buy a quality bird. Now that I am almost complete on the electronics it should not be that hard. "Come on baby it's only $279.00 plus shipping and blades". I think the 2 people that it hurts the most are those with high expectations for high quality/low price and those who have not been rescued by RC-Help.com. Ignorance for some is bliss and those folks don't deserve to have a high quality machine to begin with.

Hobbyking is a whole other topic. I have only made one purchase from them. I already expected my experience to be bad so when I got my stuff I was excited. I got the back light kit for the TH9X and two 1.5 mm hex head drivers. Both Items still work as if I just opened them. I have beat the hell out of the hex drivers and they have yet to start stripping.

Prognosis: It's hit or miss, but mostly misses for China. Yes better products await in other sovereign nations with a price tag. This hobby is not cheap and it pays to learn super quick or learn to take your time.

-------PS-----------
I have not proof read this as of yet. I will be editing for correction after I post. i will be able to see the whole post easier that way.

Some great points there Matt. As for being able to see the post easier, on the bottom right of the text input box there is a series of diagonal lines. Click and drag that to make your input box larger. Also, you can download speckie if you are on windows for a spell check, it's what I use and works great.

Well all I can say is Taiwan is not China! You have to remember if a company is located outside of China, and there manufacturing is taking place in china. The Chinese company has to do the manufacturing to the specks of the parent co. When the Chinese copy someone's design, there isn't any quality controll. So they can cheeper up the product. Just because GM or Ford are American company's doesn't meen that all of there cars or parts are made in the USA!

More great points. Lets talk about GM for a second. Some of their parts are manufactured in Mexico but assembled in Canada. The Camaro is one of these cars and as everyone knows, it's of great quality. There are american companies that are having stuff manufactured and assembled in china because the parts and labor is so cheap. This again goes to what I said earlier, we pay our workers.

I think that the availibility of low priced "beginner" kits and such actually helps. My experience has been generally positive. Over the years I have looked into getting into the RC hobby, but the prices had kept me only looking. A coworker and I recently began discussing RC planes and I decided to buy one. He gave me his best advice on the "best" plane to start with so with that in mind I stopped by the local hobby shop.

When I got there I found that plane he suggested was simply a foam kit minus electronics, a transmitter, or even a battery. A little quick math had me looking at other options and I ended up with a Super Cub kit. $200 and everything was included (or so I thought).

I won't go into all the gory details, but needless to say I have upgraded that kit. This included purchasing servos, a better TX and tons of additional bits and pieces. All of those purchases helped to keep the local hobby shops lights on, as well as supporting the various manufacturers in the business of supplying parts.

Did I buy some stuff I didn't need, or was of a lower quality than I would have liked? Yes. But, that is part of the game and I understand that. Along the way I have learned a lot about what I do and don't need and am making smarter purchses now. Oh and by the way... That kit I originally intended to purchase... I now have the additional parts necessary to get it into the air without the up front sticker shock that kept me from pulling the trigger in the first place.

With that I vote for "helping"

Thanks.

More great points here. It is hard to get into the hobby to start off with. IMO if you are just getting into it, and you run into issue after issue, that person is likely not going to stay in the hobby. I remember back when I had my HK250GT, this thing almost drove me out of the hobby it was so bad. From tail issues to head issues and everything in between. People mistake the 250 as being the "easier" heli to get started with even though even the Align has some issues, just not as many as the china brands. They will crash that 250 then more than likely not do it again.

China does make it cheaper for people to get into the hobby, I will give them that. But as stated in all of the quotes above, it all comes at a price.
 

Paulster2

I am El Taco!
As a (still as yet) noob to the hobby, I will chime in from my vantage point.

I don't have a lot of money to just throw around. If my only choice was to purchase a $600 Align heli, I wouldn't even look twice at getting into it. Having Tony as a friend and reading these pages, I can tell what to stay away from on the low end market. If I have a question, I will ask without reservation or preconceived notion. I'm learning, but learning with cheap Chinese parts is a heck of a lot more affordable than doing it with Align parts. I, for one, am glad there are options out there. As my abilities and confidence increases, so will the quality (and price) of the parts and kits I buy. My name is El Taco for a reason ... no sense in getting stupid and letting my buying ego get in the way. For these reasons, I'll say the Chinese are helping, not hurting, the hobby. JMHO, though.
 

RMB677

Member
I haven't been in the RC Heli hobby long enough to have a wide ranging opinion but I can offer a comment relative to another hobby of mine, O-gauge trains. I work part time for a Lionel dealer, retirements great when you can find a job in your hobby, and quality control and meeting scheduled deliveries is deffinately not a Chinese strong point. Engines new out of the box frequently have problems. As for heli's, the one that got me started a cheap $40 3.5 chan. coax that I got for Christmas lasted about 4 weeks. Having gotten hooked I bought an E-sky heli that has had its problems not so much in manufacture but in materials used. Also have a friend whose company deals in medical test kits, for viruses, etc., and he's mentioned the high amount of rejects on components coming out of China. Given a choice I try to buy domestic is availabe and affordable.

Roger
 

jamiem

Member
Morally I hate hobbyking. They are doing a lot of bad things; copying and cloning parts and indeed entire machines that other companies have spent a fortune developing and tweaking, then passing it off as a HK450 for example. There is no way on this planet that I would buy any kit of blades etc from HK. Connectors, wire, tools etc, yes ok, they are cheap an generally OK, but you has to support your local businesses. If you always buy your EC5's from HK rather than your local store, we will be in a situation where we can't walk in to a shop for a servo, connector, covering etc, and that's a bad state to be in. Don't even get me started on their LiPo's and warranty "support"...
 

Tony

Staff member
Jamie and I have the exact same feelings for this. He just found the words that I couldn't.
 

Paulster2

I am El Taco!
Morally I hate hobbyking. They are doing a lot of bad things; copying and cloning parts and indeed entire machines that other companies have spent a fortune developing and tweaking, then passing it off as a HK450 for example. There is no way on this planet that I would buy any kit of blades etc from HK. Connectors, wire, tools etc, yes ok, they are cheap an generally OK, but you has to support your local businesses. If you always buy your EC5's from HK rather than your local store, we will be in a situation where we can't walk in to a shop for a servo, connector, covering etc, and that's a bad state to be in. Don't even get me started on their LiPo's and warranty "support"...

While I agree with you morally, there is one thing you are overlooking ... it isn't the Chinese who are killing your local store. It's the internet. Any business which can purchase parts at a discount from Align or whom ever, then resell at a profit, yet doesn't have the overhead of a storefront, is going to be able to sell them cheaper to the public and have a wider customer base than ANY local store. The only exception may be the large chain stores who can purchase parts/kits/rtf's at a volume discount. It would still be tough, though, as they will always have a ton of overhead they have to make up for. If I were running a company out of my basement and could get even a rudamentary discount on parts, I could make some money at this business, no doubt about it. Don't put all of the blame on the Chinese here (there is some blame which can be pointed that way for the exact reasons you state) ... this is just a shifting business model which will continue to morph over time.

NOTE: To clarify, I'm not lover of the Chinese and how they do business. They do not know how to engineer ANYTHING (IMHO) ... but they do know how to reverse engineer EVERYTHING. Too bad their manufacturing techniques suck so bad.
 

justfrank

New Member
Well just reading some post of the article here. Seems like a lot of peeps have not been around long and saying it is morally wrong for them to copy things. While I do agree with that. However everyone here has or have supported the company that started the cloning stuff. Which is Align trex450. If you look back to the original trex 450 all it was is a mini raptor and they was sold for less than $100. But as with other companies quality take time and china is trying to do it at a accelerated rate. It will come and they have came a long way. While I am impressed with the us and other countries hobby products like xcell,goblin,guai,great planes, ect.... These companies have been on top for a long time charging crazy prices for there products. My thinking is that it is about time for someone to step up and make them rethink there greed. Just think wait till they start making turbines although I dont think iI would buy one from china till the 2nd or 3rd gen. It will be interesting. Also remember it is a learning process and so far they have put out a lot of good stuff and a lot of bad stuff. No one has ever stepped into the hobby ring as fast as they have.
 
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