700 Gaba's Whiplash 90 E thread!!

canongraphy

Member
GABA!!! oh I am so sorry bro! that's a bummer, but glad its getting fixed and for less than it could of been.
The loss of power at startup have anything to with it maybe? That did seem strange to me but then it seemed to be fine.
You're a vet at this, you will figure it out and have it up again in no time.
sorry again that you had this happen.
 

coolgabsi

Super Mod & DEAL KING!
The whippy is back in shape to fly. All hardware back installed .... Just haven't put the blades on yet cause I do need to check my esc logs and do some setting changes

The part count was lower than expected

And took me a whole 2 hours to put it all back together so I definitely love the simplicity of this bird ... And the frame is great!




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As for the mechanical culprit .. I think I have the answer .. I have to do a little write up on it so will post that tomorrow

Fly safe!! :) have fun!

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stokke

Well-Known Member
Aaah man. I'm sorry to hear about the crash brother :( And so early on too...

You know what they say; Just get back up there :D
 

Slobberdog

Well-Known Member
Aaah man. I'm sorry to hear about the crash brother :( And so early on too...

You know what they say; Just get back up there :D



yeah but Gaba be on the safe side, fly it after your birthday dude, nice to see it back in one piece, not nice to see it hit the ground not nice at all.
 

coolgabsi

Super Mod & DEAL KING!
Alright my friends! Here is the &^(*#&($(&^&^$%#&^!(@%&*^#%(&@% Culprit..

OK .. So .. Right after the crash , as you would on any Torque Tube heli .. is check if it was the gears that caused it or .. if they survived the crash .

So I turn the head and check all the gears.. and tail moved with the head just like it was supposed to.. No Issues there. All gears survived. So, my misconception of a power faliure basically took ground as I didnt see anything failed in the transmission of the heli ..

Well.. I listened to the video again and again and what baffled me was that I lost my tail and that kept knawing at me.. cause I have lost power on a heli before in a worst condition, and I never lost my tail hold. So either Ikon had given in and just lost all electronics, or something esle was wrong. Well.. The Ikon was on when I came back from crash and the JR satellite light wasnt blinking. all that meant was I never lost a bind. So I had power. I get my headphones and turn up the volume and I never hear a power cut out, and actually hear tail making that whiny noise and skip a couple times before I hear it just crap out and then I hear loss of power. Well the only logical thing was that I hit Throttle hold as a knee jerk reaxction To the faliure I saw. I do that.. cause keeping heli powered isnt gonna help at all once I loose control. That is why the tail also stopped spinning for a second cause there wasnt any torque left to the tail anymore It was all the head and tail's own momentum.

Ok .. So I get the bird and just for funsies hold the tail and turn the head. Guess what the head turned with friction but almost freely with tail under pressure, and as i let go, the tail caught up again. Looked in and the lower bevel gear you see in the picture below in the front TT assembly was stopped and the rest was spinning with the head.

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So notice that the bevel gear has a grub screw in it. That is what is holding it on the shaft ... as that shaft, the bevel gear and the top straight cut gear are all seperate parts that come together as one with the help of these dog point grub screws..


So .. Now I wanted to see exactly what had happened. Had there been a shearing of the grub screw due to torque, cause there was still resistance.. which made sure to give me the illusion of a holding tail .. , but no actual hold against torque applied to it. So I decided to take the grub screws out of the top gear (the straight cut) and tap the whole shaft out expecting it to just drop out like there wasnt anything holding it. with some force for sure, but the shaft did start slipping out.

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As I pull it out, I notice this.. SCORING on the shaft all around it .. black marks. from a slipping grub screw on the shaft..

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Well there .. I had found a point of faliure but why .. ?

So I go the gears next : Here is what that bevel looked like :

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I take the dog point grub screw out. and this is what I find.. The "dog point" part of it wasnt in that retaining hole at all.. It image_8.jpg

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Notice the dog point part of the screw now has an indented curvature of the jack shaft it ran on.

So this wasnt a failed screw / gear. This was a builders fault.. Ohh no! thats not good!! But how ?

Well .. I replaced the dog point grub screw. put loctite on it .. and screwed it in .. Compared it to the photographs and found that the stupid thing actually stopped hard at a point similar to the pics, but not aware of that thtats not enough and frsutrated cause it was taunting at me I gave it a good amount of torque and I hear the gear starting to align with the shaft and actually feel metal going into metal and it seating itself into that cavity . So just because I thought while building it first, I dont wanna strip a small grub screw or the more expensive gear to cause issues , I didnt apply a ton of force on it and hoped loctite would do its job.. That was my fault then .. in this case. .Now I finally made sure all such screws in the frame were in the way they were supposed to.. and guess what .. I found another one on the tail ouput gear. It hadnt slipped cause It didnt have a chance to the front one gave in first.

So there was a faliure. That little stupid grub screw cost me my maiden and the Hobby allowance for this month :( STUPID STUPID STUPID... but regardless lesson learned!

So take note everyone... :(


Now that I am at it.. I want to show something that I thought was cool. In the crash the canopy mount took a good brunt and got bent.. bending the Carbon fibre with it. I thought i would have to repair the frame. but NO! :D Those are sitting on breakaway carbon fibre canopy mounts which can rip out before the frame is affected..

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And are available as a very cheap replacement part that I did and the frame was untouched. and now with the all the parts in, I am waiting for the logs collection tonight. So once I have those, I will post them here too . .So we can look and analyze what kind of power consumption and other stuff I was running at that point.
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Lee

Well-Known Member
Good to find the culprit. It would suck to rebuild and not know, then be just waiting for it to happen again. You can breath a sigh of relief now Gaba. :)
 

stokke

Well-Known Member
At first I thought securing a tail gear to it's haft with a grub screw is just stupid.

But then I got to think it over, using a grub screw might just save your bird. Because when you over power the tail on a permanently secured gear, you'd strip the gears and the bird'll be out of control. But if you have the grub screw, the screw would just loose it's grip for a moment - then return control when power is reduced.

Maybe if my JR had this kind of gear assembly, it would still be in one piece...
 

coolgabsi

Super Mod & DEAL KING!
in this bird .. and the way you see it. If the grub screw looses the cavity .. what happens to my bird is what happens. It doesnt really gain control as the head spins faster as the load decreases immediately..

The JR setup would work great too.. Just that you need a harder gear. The gears for Whiplash are all delrin. Thats the difference.

The DOG point I talk about, is supposed to go all the way into the cavity and grab essentially making it similar to the JR .. no slippage allowed.
 

pvolcko

Well-Known Member
I hate those grub screws. At least on this design the screw binds hard to a cavity (when you know about it). I'm not a fan of the type that just bind to a flat surface ground into a shaft. Way too easy to be misaligned and think it is tightened down when in fact it isn't and will break free once it gets a jolt from bounce back or vibration in the drivetrain.
 

coolgabsi

Super Mod & DEAL KING!
Here is the Castle ICE2 HV logs for the maiden flight




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Love the fact that I can pull and read this detailed


So how much ripple is allowed again??

Fly safe!! :) have fun!

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coolgabsi

Super Mod & DEAL KING!
Yes ... My motor is rated to pull a max of 100A anywaz at its peak so thats all it pulled. I have an overkill (160A esc) so I know I got growth room when I need to. It'll be as simple as just changing the motor out. ... That said .. The main current draw happened when I did the pitch pump and climb 20 seconds before the crash .. just watching the video, and comparing it to this log is fun! :D

and yes like someone here also noted that the spool up was way to soft.. Lol.. it was 20Seconds Soft! It took it 20 seconds to come into power. I have disabled Ikon's Soft start function and now going with only ESC. Next flight.. whenever it is.. we will see what spool up we have.

:)
 

Adam

Active Member
I think that picture was and lie detector i dont understand any of it lol. Hopefully you well get it nailed. Since the crash is in the past i might add that you and grass dont mix lol if that stuff grows anymore you might lose another one.:hopelessness:

- - - Updated - - -

Btw I love the new mistress you have in that picture Tony
 

coolgabsi

Super Mod & DEAL KING!
I think that picture was and lie detector i dont understand any of it lol. Hopefully you well get it nailed. Since the crash is in the past i might add that you and grass dont mix lol if that stuff grows anymore you might lose another one.:hopelessness:

- - - Updated - - -

Btw I love the new mistress you have in that picture Tony

Haha :)

That's just the voltage / current consumptions during the flight.. And notice it all drops at one point that was me hitting TH. :D and hitting the ground . Lol

And during flight if you put that in front of the whiplash HD video, you can see how these graphs pan out with different moves lol

Fly safe!! :) have fun!
 
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