Quad Newbie With Drone Issues

Kayaken

New Member
Actually, I think i might have found the information on the spec sheet for the Omnibus regarding firmware. It's saying "target = OmnibusF4SD". If it is SD, is that a good thing?
 

D.O.G.

Goblin 380 Supporter
Hey there Ken. SD stands for scan disk card that you can put in the FC. Like the scan disk you would put in a camera, phone ect...
As for the firmware, if you install the ImpluseRC Driver fixer app Downloads this will find which FC you have and also put your FC into DFC, which will get you ready to install after you choose your firmware version. Use the oldest firmware version first. Example, 4.0.1/4.0.2/4.0.3 and so on. I hope I made some sense and helped you out some. SD is good if you don't have a action camera to record or If you use goggles that don't have a built in SD to record.
 

Kayaken

New Member
Confirmed that I flashed the firmware now and reset the modes and receiver settings. Still no go... bummer.
 

D.O.G.

Goblin 380 Supporter
Maybe it might be better to cut my losses at this point and try a different FC board and transmitter?

Hey there Kayaken. I wouldn't give up just yet. If you got control of the quad with your TX and the motors power up via betaflight, your so close. It's something silly that's not arming the quad. Make sure what ever switch you are using to arm the quad is mapping correctly on the screen. I've been using the omnibus F4 FC for over 3 yrs now. Sure mine's a F4V2 Fc but the omnibus is a FC that simply works. I'm sorry that yours doesn't...but it will. Have patience's. I have about 4 back up one's ready to go when the other get burnt out from flying. If you want to try a different FC and or TX, it's totally up to you.
 

Kayaken

New Member
I'll keep trying kind of a dumb question, can the motors run plugged into the usb port and connected to beta flight while no battery is attached or does the battery need to be plugged in? Also, is there a way to maybe diagnose the FC board with a multimeter?
 

D.O.G.

Goblin 380 Supporter
There's no such thing as a dumb question here. That's why Tony made this site. Other sites make fun of you or questions but not here. We're here to help each other out so we can enjoy this hobby :). On to the questions. The motor can run off the usb port ONLY in the motor tab of betaflight, with or without the battery. Your PC is the power source. You should be able to run each motor separately or all at once with the master tab. Yes you can test the FC with a multimeter. I was going to suggest that awhile back but I didn't want to because you MIGHT of bought a bad FC. Especially if you get it from Amazon or Ebay, 3rd party. Poop does happens, keeping it clean lol. I would do that. Test the FC. Since you told me you can control the quad with the TX stick...I didn't mention it before. Let us know how it goes.
 

RandyDSok

Well-Known Member
Pardon me... but I'm going to contradict what D.O.G. said about USB somewhat... for the safety of the USB ports themselves... By no means are all USB ports designed the same and putting too much load on some of them can damage or kill them.

Lets first visit the designed specs ( some ports and devices do go outside of these, but these are what USB is designed around and I'd not assume anything more than these numbers in the best situations unless you know for certain they differ based on what a manual listed ).

The USB 1.0 spec only provides 5v at up to 500mA ( ie 0.5A ) in data mode... USB 3.0 moves that up to 900mA ( 0.9A ). In charging mode it the amps are upped to around 1.5A. The 3.1 spec provides for up to 1.5A to 3.0A. The USB-C spec has several standards implemented and can provide more volts and amps but these do differ so I'd refer you again to their manuals to know what the ports can provide or what the devices that plug into them may require.

Many of the early USB ports and devices... only loosely followed the specs. I had several of my clients ( I'm a hardware computer tech ) that had either their ports or devices they had plugged into them, killed because of these lower quality parts. Due to the number of cheap parts still out there, I still occasionally see this happen from time to time.

I'd always recommend plugging in the battery when testing your RC motors... don't risk pulling too many amps and possibly ruining your USB ports. Most of the motors we use in the RC industry require well over the amperage output a USB port is designed to deliver.
 

D.O.G.

Goblin 380 Supporter
I thank you much Randy for stepping in :notworthy:. @ Kayaken, listen to Randy because he is a very knowledgeable induvial in this high tech electronic world...as you can tell. I just learn something new my self. @ Randy, I'm going to PM to pick your brain a bit.
 

Kayaken

New Member
Hi Randy, DOG,

Well I made some progress finally. Bought a power supply off amazon and plugged it into the drone. Reflashed the firmware and set all the modes per our earlier discussion. Went into the motor tab and all the motors were able to start up and mapped to the right number motor in Betaflight. Small victory. Then I turned on the transmitter and armed the quad and all the motors fired up as soon as the switch was flipped. Is this normal or should they start at 0 rpm? Also, one of the motors would not spin no matter what directions the control levers were pointing. So long story short, I think my battery has been iffy from the start. It's a 1500mAh 14.8V battery off of amazon so I'm not sure if it was suspect.

DOG, you were right, it was something really simple and the feeling I got from hearing all the motors spin makes me excited to continue. I thank you both immensely for all the help. I was about to ship all the parts to my friend and move on to a new hobby but this will keep me going. :semi-twins:
 

D.O.G.

Goblin 380 Supporter
That is awesome Kayaken. As for the motors spinning when armed...that's normal. Too cool. Just remeber you must have some patience in this hobby. Yes it can be frustrating at times but very rewarding once your airborne and having fun :). We are here to help not to make fun of members. That's why Tony created this site. When in doubt...give RCHelp.com a shout lol. Enjoy and keep up posted PLUS :voidh:
 

RandyDSok

Well-Known Member
Batteries are so straight forward as just a voltage and capacity rating... their C rating is also very important. The C rating indicates the amount of amps it is able to output or input ( charge rate ). I'll be discussing output rating more than charge rating but the following applies to both.

First lets qualify what a MAH rating is in just straight A ( amps )... This is simple... 1000mah is equal to 1a. Pretty simple math but it's important to know that first and foremost so you can select the proper batteries.

So your 1500mah at say a 1C output ... is capable of 1.5a of current. A 2C would be able to output 3a and so forth. So if your battery pack has too low of a C rating for the load you put on it... it'll drop voltage quickly and not provide enough power. So you'd want a battery with a higher C rating that the total required amperage draw your motors will require. You also don't want to get too high of a C rating since that would increase the weight of the battery in order to provide that much power which would then increase the load on the batteries also.

So it's possible ( based on the lack of info mentioned so far, unless I missed the C rating part ), that your batteries are fine and just don't provide enough C rating output to sustain a good voltage for your motors that you are using to work properly.

Switching subjects a bit... but still staying with the battery subject. Sourcing batteries is sometimes trickier than it should be. It's well known that there are many "fake" batteries out there... ie batteries that say they are brand A and really they are some other cheap off brand or possibly seconds. A lot of the time, the seller may not even be aware they are reselling "fake" branded batteries, they just know they got a good deal on some and started reselling them. So the trick here is to find resellers that you can trust, ones that actually ensure they are getting their stock from known good sources. Resellers of this type, typically will have their own website and clearly state they research whom they purchase from... Amazon only resellers are typically not of this type. Still, a reseller on Amazon will likely be easier to trust than say one on eBay... and never buy anything from Wish, period. Personally, I always bought mine from hobby shops that have a known reliability even if I had to pay a little more for that piece of mind.

Another part of this subject... is the charger you use to recharge your batteries with. These vary in quality from crappy to really good just like anything else you buy. The majority of the basic chargers that come in a kit aren't what you want to use in the end. They do get the job done but they aren't accurate and can be hard on the batteries. So make getting a decent brand charger a priority so you can trust what it does with your batteries.

If your charger was able to charge your batteries up to around 4v and they still couldn't provide the power needed for your RC vehicle... I'd check their C rating first to ensure it was sufficient. Next make sure you are using a known good brand of battery from a trusted reseller, there are a "million" brands and not all of them the same quality. Finally, get a good charger to properly care for your batteries.
 

Kayaken

New Member
D.O.G. Here is the video of it hooked up. Let me know if the link works.


You won't be able to tell from the video, but I have a pretty big grin on my face seeing it work. Plus, I've justified buying a power supply to join my cache of tools.

Randy: I'll have to read your last comment a couple of times. I'm not a electrical guy buy any stretch. I didn't know anything about the "C" ratings. My choice of battery consisted of making sure it was small and cheap. Same goes for the charger. I'll post an image of the specs for my battery and charger after I get off work. Just wanted to share the progress.
 

RandyDSok

Well-Known Member
I had issues trying to watch the video and get an error when I click the play button after it finally loads... but considering that is a Photo website and not made for videos... it's not unexpected. I'd recommend using Youtube to upload any video to for public sharing of vids
 

D.O.G.

Goblin 380 Supporter
Hey Ken. I'll bet you do have a grin on your face. The video came out fine on my side. Cool beans. Now for chargers, there's so many out there. Cheaper is not always better. Here's one that I thought might be fine for you and the price is decent Onyx Onyx 350 AC/DC 2 x 100 Charger | Tower Hobbies. As for batteries, like Randy mention, charger and batteries range from crappy to really good. It's going to depend on your budget. I like to keep my c rating no lower then 45C for my quads. That's just me and my :2c:. Here's my choice of battery and I'm a 4 cell flyer vs 3 or 6 cell Tattu 1550mAh 45C 4S1P Lipo Battery Pack with XT60 Plug. There's many other places to purchases batteries from. Buddy's RC, like most, are having big sales. Here's another example. Very high c rating but I'm just giving some ideas Glacier ICE 95C 1550mAh 4S 14.8V LiPo Battery

Now for the motors not spinning. Could be from bad connection, soldering job, motor, esc and so on. Did you synchronize the motors in beta flight? That's where you slide the master slider in motor tab all the way up. Remove the props first, listen for musical sound end, then slide down. You'll here more musical sound again. Your done with that. After that, you need to go into BLHeli configurator, download if you haven't, and flash the esc with the newest version. You can flash the esc first in BLHeli configurator then synchronize the motors in beta flight. See what happens with this info I provided and let us know how it goes...good luck and have patience :).

BTW. You can get batteries and chargers from oversea probably a lot cheaper from places like Banggood, gear best and so on. My self, I don't like dealing oversea. This is the charger I use. It's like the one I posted but a different brand and price. I happen to pick up mine for $99.00 Vertigo+Drones
 
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Kayaken

New Member
DOG and Randy,
Couple of more updates. Flashed the esc firmware and did the procedure in beta flight and got the singing esc tunes at max and min rpm. Powered the quad up with the power supply and tried to control it with the transmitter. It seems to work but if I give it a little more than just the bare minimum throttle (left control stick) then it goes into a runaway condition and stays there even if I try to toggle down all the way. here’s a video of this happening:

Motor speed runaway

Is this normal? Only way I could get it to stop was to disarm.

as for batteries and chargers, they are both cheaper ones. The battery appears to have the right C rating at 100C. I did leave the old battery on the charger for a couple of months and stepped away from the project when I got frustrated. When I picked up the project again after the layoff, it wouldn’t charge more than 4.5 Volts. I suspect that must have been the issue with the quad motors not running. I think I’ll get another pair from amazon and see if it works now. I feel like the initial flight is getting closer. Can’t wait!


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D.O.G.

Goblin 380 Supporter
Hey there Ken. So close that you can taste it huh :drools: Your right... that's not normal. Try taking your throttle trim all the way down then go back into beta flight, the receiver tab and reset your low mid and high again. Push save and tell us if that works. I have my throttle trim all the way down. You need to test the batteries. Most of all, you need a REAL charger that can read each cell induvial. Could be that one of the cell is bad or not holding charge. If your battery was fully charge and was sitting around for a month or so...not good for it. I use the 72hrs rule. If I don't use a battery up with in 72hrs...I put into storage charge till I'm ready to charge it up again to fly. Everyone is different. We need Randy's :2c: on this one.
Silly question here but important. Are your motors all spinning in the right direction?
 
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RandyDSok

Well-Known Member
Ken...

Real quick and to be clear... I won't be of help on the subject of the quad or it's use etc... I only have experience with airplanes... I also may know other technical stuff as well... but nothing multicopter etc.

As for batteries, lets talk a little about safety... I do have some experience with certain types including Lipo's like we use in the RC hobby. Lipo's are a particularly volatile type of battery and should NEVER be charged unattended or for longer than it takes to reach a full charge. In fact, it's highly recommended to charge them within a fire safe location in the event that they catch fire, typically or at least many times it can be explosive or nearly so.

Once fully charged, you should use them within a few days and if it'll be longer, drain them back to their storage voltage which is around 3.6v-3.7v. Keeping a full charge in them is hard on them and shortens their life expectancy. On the other side, you shouldn't drain them lower than around 3.3v-3.4v as well for much the same reason, so after a flight, charge them back to their storage charge if you aren't going to use them immediately.

When storing your batteries, again store them in a fireproof storage container. Don't place them near anything else that may be flammable such as wood structures or any that may catch fire in the event that something catastrophic does happen. If you happen to have a crash with an electric vehicle, separate that battery from any others you own ( after getting it back to a storage charge ) and keep it also in a fireproof container.

As for other battery types, find out what their recommended care and use instructions are. If you are unaware of what they are, certainly don't leave them on a charger. Always supervise your batteries of any type while charging them. Do not leave them unattended unless you've read instructions that specifically says it's safe to do so.

All batteries have a risk because they store electricity in a condensed manner. Lipo's are some on the most dense electrical storage for their weight and size which is what makes them good for this type of use but also is why there is a higher risk of having a problem. When a battery is in a crash and the membrane between the anode and cathode is compromised, it can set off an uncontrollable chain reaction resulting in the release of all of the electricity at once causing a fire. Also if they aren't cared for like I mentioned for charging/discharging or overcharging, it can cause dendrite crystals to start growing in them which in turn can again breach the membrane I mentioned... and again it can start an uncontrollable fire from the electrical discharge.

Most of the time... as long as you take the proper safety precautions... you are unlikely to have a problem but it's certainly possible and I personally know of two hobbyists that had it happen. One of them had their garage damaged and another lost their home to a fire. I've even had an airplane right after a violent crash catch fire.

If you think I may be over stating the potential risks... do a Youtube search for "Lipo fire" for many examples of controlled instances of it happening and how violent it can be.


Oh... one last thing... this is about learning about each type of rechargeable battery and how they can differ. Some batteries are better off when stored to have a trickle charger on them... Like lead acid batteries and I believe ( not certain ) that nicads also prefer a trickle charge. In any case, check what the recommended steps for the type of battery you choose to use for anything so you can get the most out of them and also be as safe as you can be.
 

D.O.G.

Goblin 380 Supporter
A+ Randy :arms: He's not joking. I charge my batteries in a ammo can. I'm glad I did because I had one battery catch on fire. I slammed the lid down and through it out side. I was maybe 5' away when this happen and it happens so quick. I was lucky that I just lose 2 batteries and charging connectors. Some people, I think Tony, never had one catch on fire as long as he been in this hobby. You just never know.
 

Kayaken

New Member
Hello fellas. Well I've been busy shopping. Crying once, buying once. Got the Venom Pro Duo charger after watching some reviews on youtube. Picked up two fresh batteries (4S, 1500mAh, 100C Goldbatt brand). Also hit harborfreight and picked up an ammo can after using a 25% off coupon and paid out the door $11. I needed that little saving after buying the charger. haha...

D.O.G. When you mentioned "Try taking your throttle trim all the way down" in your earlier post, do I set that in the transmitter?

And Randy: You advice is being heeded. Boy, these Lipo batteries are no joke. Thankfully I got your advice now and not any later. I had been charging my battery unattended in my dining room and leaving it on for months. I just assumed a battery was a battery. Moving forward, I'll discharge to a safe value with my fancy charger that is in the mail and only charge outside in the garage floor in the ammo can prior to use.
 
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