600 Derek's Align Trex 600e Pro DFC

[Derek]

I'm sorry Tony! I really need to invest in a way to record my own flights, lol. However, I am going to go flying tomorrow...hopefully A LOT...and I'll be sure to get video of the 600 and some of the other models I'm taking....including the return of two planes that I haven't flown in quite some time.

 

[pvolcko]

This may seem counter intuitive, but I'd seriously consider adjusting governor gains first, if you're using a governor for headspeed. On both my TRex 700 and Blade 550X I had to chase down a tail kick out issue.

On the TRex it was a matter of turning up my gov gain a little bit so the motor didn't sag as much on the collective hits and that held the tail in place a lot better. Then I added just a smidge of tail pre-comp to iron it out.

On the Blade 550X it wasn't a governor gain issue, rather I was having a massive power sag on moderate or better collective hits. To the point I was afraid the thing would fall out of the sky sometimes. It was as if the batteries were shot or already discharged. What ended up being the problem was my Advance Timing and Frequency settings for the motor in the Castle ESC. I set it to low advance timing and freq or 8khz (instead of outrunner mode) and it worked like a charm, no tail pre-comp needed at all.

IF you are not using gov mode, then yes you can start tweaking gyro gain and pre-comp settings to see if you can get it to hold better. Can try increasing gyro gain until is starts wagging on the collective climb and then back it off. If it is still kicking out, add pre-comp.

If non-gov and a flat throttle curve try a V curve to help offset some motor sag on the hard hit. Tail kicks are greatly affected by motor power delivery under load. You want to get that dialed in before you start cranking gains or pre-comp.

 

[Derek]

Thanks Paul! I am using the Governor on the Castle esc. Originally, I was going to use the Governor on the Ikon but the more articles that I read, it seemed that a lot of people were happier using the Governor in the ESC.

I'll take a look at the esc settings again and see if something can be changed a bit. I am heading out for some flying this morning so we'll see what happens.

I appreciate your time, Paul!!!

 

[Derek]

OK, I just plugged in the Castle Link and checked out the Governor Gain settings. My 600 was set for LOW gain. There is a little "?" next to the Gain selection and I clicked on it. This window came up:



Stated was, "Generally, the larger the helicopter, the higher the gain for crispest response." Further along, it says, "Trex helicopters run best on Medium..."

So...I made the change to "Medium". I'm also going to back into the Ikon settings and take the Pitch Precomp back down to 0, where it was initially and see what happens. I'll have video this afternoon.

 

[pvolcko]

Sounds good. Good luck! You can use the custom setting to dial in something between one of the presets if need be.

As for castle gov vs ikon. I'd say ikon but that's a personal preference thing. Castle gov is pretty good. I like the ikon better because it can benefit from knowing stick inputs and can dial in throttle advances based on it whereas castle gov can only respond to loss/gain of headspeed induced by inputs. Little slower to react.

 

[Derek]

I did do some more hover testing today but it got cut short, for some complicated reasons. I was able to adjust the gyro gain a bit more. The tail seems to be a bit more solid on "climb outs" but it still kicks to the right. I do have video and I will upload that tomorrow. I was hoping to get the video uploaded this afternoon but, for some complicated reasons, I never made it back to the house until late.

I have one flight pack still charged up. I'll get the other one charged up and I'll try again tomorrow. Tomorrow is looking to be a lot less "complicated". I really don't like "complicated".

But...this whole thing is starting to make sense to me and I might even begin to say that I understand what I'm doing.....maybe, lol.

 

[murankar]

Actually the tail needs tuned first without governor being turned on. If the tail is kicking then try and drop the gain a few points the try. If that fails then go with pre comp. The tail needs to be adjusted fully before adding governor.


Go to the episodes from rchn on tuning your heli. Its a very great 3 episode series on tuning. The tail needs to be solid be before adding the governor. The governor can do crazy things to the tail.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner

 

[Derek]

The new parts I ordered showed up today. Very cool!!! Unfortunately, I have to work again tonight so I won't get to install the new parts until Monday.

 

[Derek]

Finally got a chance to take the 600 out for some stick time. Once again, by myself so no video. I really need to focus on getting that Mobius. I'll work on it.

Anyway....I've been upping the gyro gain bit by bit, trying to get the tail to hold when I climb vertically from a hover (a punch out). The tail is holding MUCH better now. It was awesome to see and I was happy about that....but....now there is an odd noise that comes from the tail when I "punch out". It's like a "flutter." It's impossible to tell what it is without video, I know, but does anyone have any idea what this "flutter" is and how to eliminate it?

 

[Lee]

The flutter may be the tail gain is too high now, but only in aggressive moves.

 

[BOKI]

Derek I'm just learning but I take all my own Videos with a tripod & set it up look @ the screen & line the flight area up & push the record button & works great ! But I'm not up in the air I'm down low just practicing ! I have a Friend that's Great @ Planes & Helicopters & Ill tell him about your Tail Problem & see what he says ! Derek my Expert old Helicopter & Airplane friend says that Tail Blades might not be tracking Straight or Bearings in tail blade Grips might cause the & Tail to act like it does ! He said it's just a Guess though !

 

[cml001]

Derek I had to bump up the gyro gain till that point then backed it down.. And then turned up the pitch comp.. Mine seems right now.. Hope that helps a bit.

 

[Derek]

I appreciate the reply. I really need to sit down and spend some quality time with the Ikon programing so that I can understand it better and what it does. I will surely take your reply into consideration. Thanks!!!

 

[cml001]

No prob! I'm still getting used to it myself.. My first ikon setup.. Some stuff is pretty easy(and is similar to the beastx), other stuff has much more tuning ability I've been scared to mess with it.. So I read read read everything ikon related I see.. Small changes at time. But I'm very pleased with the set up now.. This weekend I'm off work and am gonna figure out why the auto rotation bail out doesn't work properly and once that's done enable the self level. I may start another thread on this if I can't forgot it out but maybe someone reading this knows... Auto bailout works fine if I come back outta hold quickly.. If I wait on the headspeed to drop too low it goes to soft start.. Anyhow.. Love'n the ikon... Are u fly'n the 600 much?

 

[Derek]

I haven't even messed with the auto bailout yet...but it won't be long now, I think. I've only been hovering my 600 lately and doing an ocassional piro...just getting use to the size of it and the sound it makes. I can't make any adjustments to the Ikon because my laptop is in the repair shop. I'm hoping to get my laptop back this weekend...I will have my stick packs charged.

 

[Derek]

Here is a screenshot from the 600 Pro DFC manual:



I have the torque tube umbrella gear pressed as far into the umbrella gear case as it will allow. Is that was causing me issues? Should the umbrella gear be pressed in as far as it will allow?

 

[Lee]

I pressed mine in as far as it would go. Worked perfectly.

 

[Derek]

I guess I'll just go back to scratching my head on this one. I've got all new gears, again, installed. I'll take the 600 out later on today and we'll see what happens. If I'm stripping teeth on these gears while just hovering and slow circuits, I'm not anxious to see what happens when I flip it for the first time.

 

[Derek]

Just an update on whats happening with the 600.

I think the 600 and I are beginning to really understand each other. I've got 16 flights on it since my last post, two weeks ago. No stripped umbrella gears on the front torque tube nor the drive assembly. I'm very happy with it. I can see, on two teeth, that there is actual "contact" between those two teeth and the drive gear...just the slightest bit of wear but nothing broke/stripped.

I'm still raising the gyro gain slightly in efforts to get the tail to hold (and not kick to the right) when I pitch up hard but we are making progress. Yes, the progress is slow but let's just state the obvious....I'm not Alan Szabo Jr, lol.

Nose in hovering is almost fun with this beast. It's just ridiculously stable.

I did take the helicopter good and high and changed to the bank that has the auto level and I could see that, despite the wind, the helicopter was holding very level and stable. I was just controlling the helicopter with the collective stick. No cyclic at all. That was cool. Flipped back to my usual flight bank and landed with an estimated 12' auto.

Very cool!

When time allows, I want to go into the Castle programming and enable the box for the Auto Rotation so that I will have the auto bail-out. But that's going to have to be another day.

 

[Slobberdog]

Derek the tail kick to the right is tail precomp, set it to on, pick your head direction then start from there, raise the value small amounts each tim till you get it not kicking