600 I need more power, Captain!!

B

Bruno

Member
I have what is a basically stock Trex 550E DFC V3 with 600MX motor, Talon 90 ESC with a Castle 20A BEC.
I have an AR7200BX Beast Receiver.
I use Gens Ace 30C 5300 6S Mah Batts.

Stunt Mode: 100% Throttle with Linear curve.

I have become “pretty good” with flying my stock Trex 450s (1 converted DFC, Belt Drive &
1 Pro V2 TT Drive) including some moderate 3D. I like their agility and speed.

I have flown the 550 with mild 3D. I am at the point where I am realizing the benefit of more speed/power associated with improved control and handling which I feel is lacking with the 550.

I would also like to use Align 550 3G CF Rotors

550 QUESTIONS:
1) Should I simply upgrade the ESC to the CC Phoenix Edge 130? Will this unleash substantial power?
2) Should I upgrade to the 730 MX motor.


I am not too concerned with cost as I am with overall performance that I can grow into without the need to be an extreme 3D pro…lol.

I have built all my helis (about 5) yet always feel at a loss when it comes to electronics and use the forum for advice which is excellent but a grueling process when anxious to “get r done”.


Any and all experiential suggestions/recommendations/resources are welcome regarding hardware and installation.

Happy Flying!!!!!

:scratchchin:
 
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P

pvolcko

Well-Known Member
The 90A ESC is probably a bit under rated for that size heli. I fly a CC 120HV on my blade 550X.

However, that is probably not responsible for throttling any power delivery to the motor unless you have the current limiter setting at something besides "insensitive".

A motor upgrade within align's line of motors will be difficult since they do not have the RPM/V ratings you need for a 6S 550 setup (1100-1300 typical). You'll be needing to look at something like a KDE 500XF or 600XF (G3 or the older power hog version) along with an ESC upgrade to a 120HV or a 130 non-HV from CC. There are Scorpion motors that would fit the bill, too. And probably other makers have them as well. With the change in motor speed, you'll need to switch pinion and possibly change main gear too, in order to maintain or increase your headspeed.

You may simply want to try a pinion change, to start off with, though. If you throw a pinion with more teeth on your existing setup then you'll gain a bit of headspeed and pick up some pop. If you go too high on the pinion, though, you will start to bog the motor down during high loads.

Another thing, on the 7200BX, are you using one of the control preset modes like "sport" or "3d" or are you using the "transmitter" setting? If the later, you will find you need to increase your servo travel limit settings in the Tx in order to get faster roll rates and agility out of the 7200BX. Try bumping up to 115 or 125 on the servo travel settings for ail and ele and see what kind of difference it produces. It was a night and day difference in performance on my 7200BX equipped helis when I found this out. Also making some cyclic gain adjustments to tighten up roll starts/stops was very helpful.
 
Lee

Lee

Well-Known Member
Paul has said exactly what I was going to advise.
The KDE motors are super powerful, and the Castle Edge 120HV ESC is a good match.
I also put my servo limits up to 125% when I had the AR7200BX.

You could also go the 12S route. This would give you more punch and reduce the work load on your electronics system.
I run a Scorpion 4025 550KV motor and CC Edge 80HV ESC in my Goblin 570. More power than I need, for sure.
Flight times are better than 6S and less strain on electronics.
Only downside for you, is you already have the 6S 5300 packs. You would need two 6S 3300 packs for 12S.
 
B

Bruno

Member
pvolcko said:
The 90A ESC is probably a bit under rated for that size heli. I fly a CC 120HV on my blade 550X.

However, that is probably not responsible for throttling any power delivery to the motor unless you have the current limiter setting at something besides "insensitive".

A motor upgrade within align's line of motors will be difficult since they do not have the RPM/V ratings you need for a 6S 550 setup (1100-1300 typical). You'll be needing to look at something like a KDE 500XF or 600XF (G3 or the older power hog version) along with an ESC upgrade to a 120HV or a 130 non-HV from CC. There are Scorpion motors that would fit the bill, too. And probably other makers have them as well. With the change in motor speed, you'll need to switch pinion and possibly change main gear too, in order to maintain or increase your headspeed.

You may simply want to try a pinion change, to start off with, though. If you throw a pinion with more teeth on your existing setup then you'll gain a bit of headspeed and pick up some pop. If you go too high on the pinion, though, you will start to bog the motor down during high loads.

Another thing, on the 7200BX, are you using one of the control preset modes like "sport" or "3d" or are you using the "transmitter" setting? If the later, you will find you need to increase your servo travel limit settings in the Tx in order to get faster roll rates and agility out of the 7200BX. Try bumping up to 115 or 125 on the servo travel settings for ail and ele and see what kind of difference it produces. It was a night and day difference in performance on my 7200BX equipped helis when I found this out. Also making some cyclic gain adjustments to tighten up roll starts/stops was very helpful.
Click to expand...

I have a DX6I which I think limits travel to 100%. Should I consider simply changing the BX Rx to 3D mode? Once the BX Rx is set to 3D mode what must travel be set to on the Tx?
 
P

pvolcko

Well-Known Member
IF you use one of the programmed modes then I think you are intended to use flat D/R curves and 100 for the servo travels and it will dial it up internally based on the setting. Not sure on that though, I've never actually tried anything but Tx mode.
 
Lee

Lee

Well-Known Member
I use Hard core 3D mode, or what ever its called. And then change the limits to 125%. Worked well for me, but i like a responsive heli.
 
B

Bruno

Member
I was wrong. The DX6i can increase travel to 125. I will give this a try this weekend.

Does anyone have videos to post with this thread to demonstrate the referenced upgrades?
 
B

Bruno

Member
I flew the heli but failed to increase travel limits. I will give this a try soon. Maybe today.
Pinion Question: If I change the pinion gear to one with more teeth how do I determine which main gear I need? Can I simply change the pinion size without changing the main gear or will the gears simply not mesh?

- - - Updated - - -

Lee said:
Paul has said exactly what I was going to advise.
The KDE motors are super powerful, and the Castle Edge 120HV ESC is a good match.
I also put my servo limits up to 125% when I had the AR7200BX.

You could also go the 12S route. This would give you more punch and reduce the work load on your electronics system.
I run a Scorpion 4025 550KV motor and CC Edge 80HV ESC in my Goblin 570. More power than I need, for sure.
Flight times are better than 6S and less strain on electronics.
Only downside for you, is you already have the 6S 5300 packs. You would need two 6S 3300 packs for 12S.
Click to expand...

12S question: if I use two 6S why do they have to be 3300s?
 
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murankar

murankar

Staff member
Bruno said:
I flew the heli but failed to increase travel limits. I will give this a try soon. Maybe today.
Pinion Question: If I change the pinion gear to one with more teeth how do I determine which main gear I need? Can I simply change the pinion size without changing the main gear or will the gears simply not mesh?

- - - Updated - - -

12S question: if I use two 6S why do they have to be 3300s?
Click to expand...



Mostly weight. Bigger capacity is going to add weight to the bird. They payoff maybe minimal at best.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Forum Runner
 
B

Bruno

Member
Seems a quick, easy and inexpensive modification is to increase the motor pinion from 11 tooth to 12 or 13 tooth. Not as exciting a modification as those suggested yet seems to be a reasonable one. I'm gonna give this a try first.
 
B

Bruno

Member
Which of these will work:

Align h50168 and/or h60175.

I'm confused since the 168 description reads it meshes with a 134 tooth main gear and the 175 seems to have 15 teeth when I count them yet described as a 12t pinion with 15T X 1.

My main gear is 112T

Seems it should be more simple and straight forward.

Help please.
 
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