600 Trex 550E DFC V3 Electronics Help.

[pvolcko]

The blurb you got from helifreak is how I did my CC escs on 7200bx.

7200bx needs to get a zero throttle to initialize and start sending throttle output signals. So you power it up separately from the ESC. Once through 7200bx init, set tx throttle travel to 50/50 like they say. Go to high stick and then you power up the ESC (if the ESC has a built in BEC, make sure the positive pin on throttle is not connected to the 7200bx). The ESC will see a middle throttle signal so it will enter endpoint programming mode. Go to full throttle and then adjust the max travel for throttle up until it beeps, then another point or two for safety. Then go to low stick, adjust the min travel down until it does multiple beeps (the init tones). Again, add a couple more points down for safety.

After this, you can fire up the system normally and the ESC will init with 0 throttle postion held during 7200bx init.

 

[Bruno]

The blurb you got from helifreak is how I did my CC escs on 7200bx.

7200bx needs to get a zero throttle to initialize and start sending throttle output signals. So you power it up separately from the ESC. Once through 7200bx init, set tx throttle travel to 50/50 like they say. Go to high stick and then you power up the ESC (if the ESC has a built in BEC, make sure the positive pin on throttle is not connected to the 7200bx). The ESC will see a middle throttle signal so it will enter endpoint programming mode. Go to full throttle and then adjust the max travel for throttle up until it beeps, then another point or two for safety. Then go to low stick, adjust the min travel down until it does multiple beeps (the init tones). Again, add a couple more points down for safety.

After this, you can fire up the system normally and the ESC will init with 0 throttle postion held during 7200bx init.

So I followed the directions as indicated in this thread post #18 and I rendered indicators regarding high and low throttle ends points as indicated in the directions. Prior method, without independent use of the BX and ESC I was only able to have the ESC identify the low (0%) throttle point not the upper (100%) point.



However, I am still concerned with the fact that the throttle lever does not engage the motor until it is at about 20%. I am not confident that his is typical. I am concerned with the fact that I will have to adjust my throttle curve and pitch curve accordingly.



Does anyone have any opinions/suggestions/experience with this issue?



Thanks for your help.

 

[murankar]

I had throttle end point issues myself once I added my scorpion commander. I had everything as I did before the ESC switch and I could not for the life of me get it to calibrate. On a whim I reversed the throttle in the TX and then everything was working just fine. I am not saying this is your problem but it is something to consider.

 

[Bruno]

I am still asking for help with ESC endpoints. I am not comfortable with the motor failing to engage until throttle stick is at about 20%.

 

[flysolo]

I am still asking for help with ESC endpoints. I am not comfortable with the motor failing to engage until throttle stick is at about 20%.

Are you saying that if you spool up and reduce throttle to 25% the motor will stop? What does your throttle curve look like? Did you set up the gov in the esc?

 

[Bruno]

Are you saying that if you spool up and reduce throttle to 25% the motor will stop? What does your throttle curve look like? Did you set up the gov in the esc?

Yes (at about 0% to 20% stick movement the motor does not respond).
throttle curve is linear.
I did not set up gov and don't know how.

 

[pvolcko]

This is the behavior I saw too, Bruno. Aroudn 20% stick it would start to spin up. CC ESCs support auto-rotation recovery, which is used by making a setup adjustment in the ESC settings and then programming the Tx to use a point around 8-12% throttle (can vary and needs trial and error to find it) as the throttle hold position. That way when you flip out of TH the ESC will see it as an auto-recovery and then spin up faster than the slow "from init" spin up. To support this feature there is a largish "deadband" at the bottom from init throttle position up to where the ESC will engage the motor.

Solution: Move your 0 stick position point in the throttle curve up (and the others accordingly based on the kind of curve you want). Be careful to leave enough room so the ESC knows that it is in the off range at low stick position. You don't want the low point right on the edge between off and low speed. I'd leave the HOLD throttle curve set at 0, however, assuming you do not want to use the auto-recovery feature.

 

[Bruno]

This is the behavior I saw too, Bruno. Aroudn 20% stick it would start to spin up. CC ESCs support auto-rotation recovery, which is used by making a setup adjustment in the ESC settings and then programming the Tx to use a point around 8-12% throttle (can vary and needs trial and error to find it) as the throttle hold position. That way when you flip out of TH the ESC will see it as an auto-recovery and then spin up faster than the slow "from init" spin up. To support this feature there is a largish "deadband" at the bottom from init throttle position up to where the ESC will engage the motor.

Solution: Move your 0 stick position point in the throttle curve up (and the others accordingly based on the kind of curve you want). Be careful to leave enough room so the ESC knows that it is in the off range at low stick position. You don't want the low point right on the edge between off and low speed. I'd leave the HOLD throttle curve set at 0, however, assuming you do not want to use the auto-recovery feature.

Your response is reassuring. Seems you are familiar with CC. I have realized that the CC 90 ESC spools up the motor at about 10% throttle stick movement. I experimented with throttle travel adjust. I can get her to spool up with a hair of a throttle touch (I know this is not desirable). However, if I save this setting when I reboot the system the ESC fails to initialize. It needs to be a the established/programed endpoints. Mine are L (109) and H (101). My Trex 450s with Align ESCs are my point of reference (this 550 is still in build phase) seem to spool up at about 5% or less (close to 0%) throttle stick movement and that's what I am use to. Minor difference. However, I have realized that minor differences can make a big difference in other areas of settings.

Curious to me at this time as to why Align contracted with CC regarding the ESC.

Anyway, I welcome any and all suggestions. I plan on continuing with the build today. More of the hardware portions. I just needed to get a grip on the more complicated features in order to proceed with some knowledge and confidence with expectations. I certainly don't want to complete the build only to demolish this huge bird during lift off....lol......NERVOUS Chuckle!!!!

PS: in terms of Autorecovery, I only have a simple idea as to what that even means. Seen some videos where pilots allow the craft to plummet to the ground and then recover the craft before the crash. I just wanna get off the ground at this point...lol.

 

[flysolo]

Pvolcko is spot on and it's a really nice feature, no need to worry

I would recommend to download the castle link software if you havn't already. You can run it in demo mode for the talon 90 if you are missing the adapter. This is help text for auto rotaion:

"This mode adds a small window above the arming point but below the point when the motor starts (See Vehicle Type help for ms values). In this window the motor is not powered, but an increase in throttle, such as bailing out of an autorotation, will use the faster Head Speed Change Rate to get back to the governed speed instead of the much slower Initial Spool-Up Rate. *This will allow a gentle initial spool-up AND a very fast recovery from an auto-rotation maneuver. *Any throttle below the arming point will be treated as total throttle-off. *All throttle increases from this zero throttle position will use the Initial Spool-Up Rate."

 

[pvolcko]

Don't use throttle travel adjust to modify the throttle stick position to ESC start point. You will run into the ESC init issue (and potentially a 7200bx init issue, if the low travel has to be set high enough).

Keep travel settings where they were for ESC endpoint setup. You never touch them again.

Change your throttle curve settings so that the low stick position has a higher than 0 value and adjust the rest of the curve accordingly. So if you're at 0-25-50-75-100 for a normal curve, for example, try using 8-31-54-77-100. Move the start point of the curve up to where you have a comfortable deadband at the bottom before it kicks on. Adjust your normal curve in this way. Another example, if you have a 0-40-60-80-100 type curve, then go 8-40-60-80-100.

Leave the hold curve at 0, though. That's you're safety and your initialization.

When you get around to trying auto-recovery you'll then end up setting TH to 8 as well (or wherever you need to in order ot engage the feature) and then maybe assign a throttle cut to your trainer button or some other switch which will be set to 0 for init and to reset the recovery feature to slow spool up speed.

 

[Bruno]

I just spoke with Castle Tech. regarding the ESC initialization (great guy. Took the time and interest with exploring the problem).



Considering the functioning of the system, it was his opinion that the ESC is set in autorotation mode. He indicated that this is not typical with Align/Castle kit defaults but a possible reason for the issues. He indicated that the delayed spool up (~12% throttle) and fast/hard motor start is indicative of the ESC being set to autorotation mode. Otherwise, the ESC may be in Airplane mode. I ordered the castle link adapter which I will need to confirm the ESC settings.



Any feedback would be appreciated.



I appreciate all of your help .

 

[pvolcko]

I saw this large deadband when I was setting up before I ever turned on the auto-rotation recovery feature. All enabling that did was add a throttle position in that deadband that was the threshold between slow spoolup and auto recovery spoolup.

Did you have to pay for that adapter? Your esc may have come with a card that has a code on it for a free one. Both mine did. I could have sold you one cheap.

 

[Bruno]

I saw this large deadband when I was setting up before I ever turned on the auto-rotation recovery feature. All enabling that did was add a throttle position in that deadband that was the threshold between slow spoolup and auto recovery spoolup.

Did you have to pay for that adapter? Your esc may have come with a card that has a code on it for a free one. Both mine did. I could have sold you one cheap.

Yea...I hear ya.....but what about the hard spool up I have now? My 450s have a nice soft spool up. How is your spool up, soft?

Seems according to your experience I may not be impressed with my findings. However, the Tech was perplexed by the delayed spool up.

My BEC did come with a $10 voucher for the chip, therefore, free. Thanks for offering up the chip.

So are you thinking the delayed spool up is simply characteristic of this ESC?

 

[flysolo]

If i'm in looking at the monitor in my dx8 the throttle is at -116% at low stick. Motor revs up at around -80%. This is almost nothing in stick movement but i don't use a straight throttle curve, mine is 0-45-75-85-85.

- - - Updated - - -

The numbers are the same with the autorotation thing enabled or not, just tried it.

 

[pvolcko]

I didn't know you were also have a hard or delayed spool up issue.

When I'm starting from init the spool up is slow. auto recovery spool up is faster, but not what I'd consider "hard".

Maybe you are set to the wrong mode without a softstart. Perhaps as a result of getting into a programming mode when you were trying to set endpoints.

 

[Bruno]

If i'm in looking at the monitor in my dx8 the throttle is at -116% at low stick. Motor revs up at around -80%. This is almost nothing in stick movement but i don't use a straight throttle curve, mine is 0-45-75-85-85.

- - - Updated - - -

The numbers are the same with the autorotation thing enabled or not, just tried it.

Thanks for the feedback on the authoritarian setting. Good to know. -116 to -80% is a 36% difference prior to motor engagement. Mine is about a 15% difference so maybe that's typical for Talon.

- - - Updated - - -

I didn't know you were also have a hard or delayed spool up issue.

When I'm starting from init the spool up is slow. auto recovery spool up is faster, but not what I'd consider "hard".

Maybe you are set to the wrong mode without a softstart. Perhaps as a result of getting into a programming mode when you were trying to set endpoints.

Perhaps my assessment of the hard start is exaggerated by the fact that I am running this motor literally on a bench. Maybe if it were engaged with the main gear and rotor the spool up would seem less hard and slower..not sure. I guess I'll continue with the build as I wait for the castle chip to see how the ESC is set.

 

[flysolo]

Thanks for the feedback on the authoritarian setting. Good to know. -116 to -80% is a 36% difference prior to motor engagement. Mine is about a 15% difference so maybe that's typical for Talon.

Yeah, seems like 15% deadband of full travel is normal, in real life use I never felt this was a problem but I would not use a linear curve. Actually the gov in the talon 90 is pretty nice, you will probably want to set that up when you get your adapter.

I didn't think my soft start worked at first either. Went into the software and changed it to slow. Now I could really notice it but it was too slow so I changed back to normal like it was from the beginning. It was ok all along.

either but it didIn real use I never noticed because i run flat throttle curves and use throttle hold and soft start.

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I can't edit posts, that last line of jumbo should not be there

 

[Bruno]

Considering what I have learned from RC-HELP members et. al and Castle Tech, I re-programed the entire system. I set my throttle curves at 0-50-75-90-100. Throttle H = 102+2 (104); L = 109+2 (111)

The motor spools up slow/smooth at about 10-15% throttle.

I am satisfied at this point with my electronic functions/operations.

I will await to see how the Castle Link reads the ESC settings.

I am going to proceed with the build and positioning of the electronics.

Glad to be at this point.

Thank you all for your help. It gave me the confidence to persevere.

Hopefully this endeavor will help others.

 

[Bruno]

Identified Talon 90 ESC was set to auto rotation. Unchecked box. Re set end points (H=102+2, L=73 +2). Now throttle immediately engages the engine. re bound rx. Very nice. Pleased!

 

[Bruno]

Thought I would forward some pics of the finished build.

Just waiting on my RC Logger digital gauge (Friday delivery) to program BeastX settings J, K & L.

Thanks you to all forum members that took the time to help and answer all of my questions during the build. I thoroughly enjoyed the build as a consequence.