450 X3 trouble shooting time
- Thread starter murankar
- Start date
murankar
Staff member
FInally everything is back together. I finished off pack one from yesterday and drained the other three packs. I accomplished a few things first and foremost is I got more stick time. I really need to get my stick time up if I am going to actually move forward to some real sport flying. Over the next few weeks Ill be doing just that.
During the first flight I did some tail gain adjustment. I kicked it up as high as it would go with out shacking, which was around 72. Went to do a nose right piro and not so much, in the end I dropped back down around 45 to 50. That seems to be where Mikado recommends the gain for this size heli. Increased the head gain to around 70 from 60 did some pumps and all seams well. Adjusted the style down to 50 from 60 and thats about it. Aileron inputs are more relaxed and not so abrupt.
Flight time on the 4s 1800 mah packs is not what I thought they would be. 3:45 is about the absolute max at this point. I need to go through the castle link again and mack double certain that my settings are where they need to be. Motor is still getting hot. Its not instant burn but it does get toasty.
If my findings on the castle link are all positive then I need to see where things are not so perfect mechanically. I feel everything is as close to spot on as I can get them. The back lash on the main gear and spur gear is about right. Just enough movement to allow the gears to click together, so to speak. It a very small amount of movement, enough to let you know its not binding.
I am still taking it easy until my confidence come back. I dont want to over do it then break something else. I want to ensure everything is settling back in like they should.
During the first flight I did some tail gain adjustment. I kicked it up as high as it would go with out shacking, which was around 72. Went to do a nose right piro and not so much, in the end I dropped back down around 45 to 50. That seems to be where Mikado recommends the gain for this size heli. Increased the head gain to around 70 from 60 did some pumps and all seams well. Adjusted the style down to 50 from 60 and thats about it. Aileron inputs are more relaxed and not so abrupt.
Flight time on the 4s 1800 mah packs is not what I thought they would be. 3:45 is about the absolute max at this point. I need to go through the castle link again and mack double certain that my settings are where they need to be. Motor is still getting hot. Its not instant burn but it does get toasty.
If my findings on the castle link are all positive then I need to see where things are not so perfect mechanically. I feel everything is as close to spot on as I can get them. The back lash on the main gear and spur gear is about right. Just enough movement to allow the gears to click together, so to speak. It a very small amount of movement, enough to let you know its not binding.
I am still taking it easy until my confidence come back. I dont want to over do it then break something else. I want to ensure everything is settling back in like they should.
Smoggie
Well-Known Member
Uri,
Don't the X3's usually fly in 6s batteries? The Chase 360 i have (same size as the X3) gets 5 minutes quite easily but that is on 6s (6s 1400mAh). Of course 4s would work fine too, you just need a higher Kv motor.
Good luck with your flying, the confidence soon comes back.
Don't the X3's usually fly in 6s batteries? The Chase 360 i have (same size as the X3) gets 5 minutes quite easily but that is on 6s (6s 1400mAh). Of course 4s would work fine too, you just need a higher Kv motor.
Good luck with your flying, the confidence soon comes back.
murankar
Staff member
Yes I started with a 3s setup and loved the 360 blades so much I had to upgrade the packs to 4s. My reasons for the upgrade to 4s instead of 6s are quite simple, cost. I Just bought the Scorpion HKIII 2520-3500kv motor back in September and is 4S compatible. Since I needed new packs I was torn on going full 6s or going 4s. Since the motor is so new I figured it would be more prudent to go 4S for now then worry about buying another motor and packs. this route as $75 cheaper (about). Next time I have to buy more packs then I will concider going full 6s if I am still flying it. I think the bigger heli is going to grow on me more than a 360.
D.O.G.
Goblin 380 Supporter
I like my 450 and the X3 but the 500 is a blast to me. I know that it's not a big heli but I really enjoying flying that bird the most.
trainrider06
Active Member
There is a noticeable smoothness to my 500 compared to the 450 that's for sure!
trainrider06
Active Member
Do you want to come feel MY 450?
Ha ha, thats oK Tony, soon i'll be feeling the smoothness of my Goblin 630!
murankar
Staff member
Today wa one hell of a day with the Gaui and the PL6. Lets start with the pl6 because that's the quick one to tell. Creating a fuel table bites, PITA you name it. It takes a very long time to build a fuel table for a pack.
Now for the Gaui. Either I am getting another Hobbywing or this dang gum thig is going to work either way I will have telemetry on my radio. I start off by going through the model setup tool. At the very end you can pug in your pole count/2, if you have a 10 pole motor you put in 5; simple. Then you add your gear ratio, I have an 11t spur and a 131 t main gear. If my math is right that should be about 11.9. clicked done and went out side. At the point in the Governor menu the middle option was lined out and headspeed and gain were normal and could be adjusted. I set the head speed to 2600 across the board. Just in case it actually work. In order to tell if it is work just watch the head speed, in my case it just kept climbing and the tail started shaking so i switched to motor idle then motor off. Well that didnt go so well. I ended up stripping the spur gear set screw. I just so happened to another set screw buy luck. So I reset the pinion and waited about 30 minutes. Remounted the motor this time with the motor way off the main gear. Went back to Governor and reset it the way it was before. With head speed and gain lined out and retaught the high and low sticks. So tomorrow I will get out and start messing around with this governor deal. It looks like I am going to be stuck in end point mode for this bad boy.
Now for the Gaui. Either I am getting another Hobbywing or this dang gum thig is going to work either way I will have telemetry on my radio. I start off by going through the model setup tool. At the very end you can pug in your pole count/2, if you have a 10 pole motor you put in 5; simple. Then you add your gear ratio, I have an 11t spur and a 131 t main gear. If my math is right that should be about 11.9. clicked done and went out side. At the point in the Governor menu the middle option was lined out and headspeed and gain were normal and could be adjusted. I set the head speed to 2600 across the board. Just in case it actually work. In order to tell if it is work just watch the head speed, in my case it just kept climbing and the tail started shaking so i switched to motor idle then motor off. Well that didnt go so well. I ended up stripping the spur gear set screw. I just so happened to another set screw buy luck. So I reset the pinion and waited about 30 minutes. Remounted the motor this time with the motor way off the main gear. Went back to Governor and reset it the way it was before. With head speed and gain lined out and retaught the high and low sticks. So tomorrow I will get out and start messing around with this governor deal. It looks like I am going to be stuck in end point mode for this bad boy.
murankar
Staff member
So I have been doing some back room discussions on my most recent issues. Just so we a re clear this has nothing to with the airframe I still love it. Problem is its all happening on this airframe.
WHAT HAPPENED: Flying the X3 trying to get things to settle in, like my nerves; not doing anything crazy left to right and right to left, pitch pumps (nothing crazy like on youtube). Just trying to get a feel for the gains, style and agility settings for bank 1. I have the Governor set at 30 which is like 30% throttle. Now I am still having issues with getting the esc to talk to the Gyro in some respects. The only way I can get the Governor to work is through throttle percentages and the telemetry still is not being sent back to the radio. At this point that is trivial since I have bigger issues than that. Just so we are on the same page I have gone in and just for the heck of it I set up the Governor in the esc. My thought on this was to give the esc the setup info for the gear ratios, pack voltages and pole counts. I wanted to make sure the ESC is using the correct info for the setup. I then went back and switched to external governor with fixed end points. Since that's the only option for external governor.
A few more things to take note of is that the ESC does not use active frewheeling. This is an important thing to know because if the throttle signal does not reach a certain point it could overheat after prolonged time under that point. Some ESCs have an issue with that under 50%. The kicker to this whole thing is that if oyu use the ESC governor on the Castle Edge it will tell you to set your throttle to 30% for the first headspeed entry. then it jumps to 70% then to 100% for the last entry. ALl you have to do is tell the ESC what head speeds you want in those positions. My lowest head speed for my setup is 3750 and my highest is around 3300. At this point I am about to switch to Hobbywing i think.
After my last for for the day I brought the heli in and started to tear it down to get the motor out. I noticed that I had 2 more wires with kinks in them. Basicall it was where the factory solder joint stopped wicking. There was a good amount of wicking on the wires, well more than one would expect from the factory. Wires were not broke just bent. I cut off the excess wire off the black lead and re soldered the bullet back on. Unsoldered the red wire bullet cleaned up the lead and attempted to resolder the bullet. THe wire would not take any solder at all. Just the tip would solder and the copper looks discolored and in two spots looks burnt or chard.
Solution: I dont have one yet, at least not yet. My only choice at this point is to replace the motor with another HKIII 2520-3500 and a new Hobbywing 60 amp esc. I have contacted Toney Tseung At Scorpion through facebook messenger. Since he lives in Honk Kong it might be a few hours before I hear back. I just bought the motor in September and I am not sure if this would fall under warranty work or could warrant an exchange. I really dont know right now. This issue could have been spawned by me for all I know. what I do know is that this setup should be working just fine together.
Here is the Castle log from the last four entries in the ESC. Temps were out of the world at 313 F. Amps, watts, and everything else look normal for the most part. nothing to suggest over current issues or anything, unless I am reading it wrong.
WHAT HAPPENED: Flying the X3 trying to get things to settle in, like my nerves; not doing anything crazy left to right and right to left, pitch pumps (nothing crazy like on youtube). Just trying to get a feel for the gains, style and agility settings for bank 1. I have the Governor set at 30 which is like 30% throttle. Now I am still having issues with getting the esc to talk to the Gyro in some respects. The only way I can get the Governor to work is through throttle percentages and the telemetry still is not being sent back to the radio. At this point that is trivial since I have bigger issues than that. Just so we are on the same page I have gone in and just for the heck of it I set up the Governor in the esc. My thought on this was to give the esc the setup info for the gear ratios, pack voltages and pole counts. I wanted to make sure the ESC is using the correct info for the setup. I then went back and switched to external governor with fixed end points. Since that's the only option for external governor.
A few more things to take note of is that the ESC does not use active frewheeling. This is an important thing to know because if the throttle signal does not reach a certain point it could overheat after prolonged time under that point. Some ESCs have an issue with that under 50%. The kicker to this whole thing is that if oyu use the ESC governor on the Castle Edge it will tell you to set your throttle to 30% for the first headspeed entry. then it jumps to 70% then to 100% for the last entry. ALl you have to do is tell the ESC what head speeds you want in those positions. My lowest head speed for my setup is 3750 and my highest is around 3300. At this point I am about to switch to Hobbywing i think.
After my last for for the day I brought the heli in and started to tear it down to get the motor out. I noticed that I had 2 more wires with kinks in them. Basicall it was where the factory solder joint stopped wicking. There was a good amount of wicking on the wires, well more than one would expect from the factory. Wires were not broke just bent. I cut off the excess wire off the black lead and re soldered the bullet back on. Unsoldered the red wire bullet cleaned up the lead and attempted to resolder the bullet. THe wire would not take any solder at all. Just the tip would solder and the copper looks discolored and in two spots looks burnt or chard.
Solution: I dont have one yet, at least not yet. My only choice at this point is to replace the motor with another HKIII 2520-3500 and a new Hobbywing 60 amp esc. I have contacted Toney Tseung At Scorpion through facebook messenger. Since he lives in Honk Kong it might be a few hours before I hear back. I just bought the motor in September and I am not sure if this would fall under warranty work or could warrant an exchange. I really dont know right now. This issue could have been spawned by me for all I know. what I do know is that this setup should be working just fine together.
Here is the Castle log from the last four entries in the ESC. Temps were out of the world at 313 F. Amps, watts, and everything else look normal for the most part. nothing to suggest over current issues or anything, unless I am reading it wrong.
Tony
Staff member
What did you have the governor set at? Did you notice any surging or anything? This, like freewheeling, will cause a massive overheating issue with the ESC.
As for not being able to solder the motor wires. are you sure you are not trying to solder through the protective coating on the windings? This has to be scraped off of each wire before soldering.
If you want to give this another go, and you get that wire soldered back on the motor, turn governor off and fly again. Then post up those graphs with the amps, volts and temp readings.
As for not being able to solder the motor wires. are you sure you are not trying to solder through the protective coating on the windings? This has to be scraped off of each wire before soldering.
If you want to give this another go, and you get that wire soldered back on the motor, turn governor off and fly again. Then post up those graphs with the amps, volts and temp readings.