The Chinese, Helping Or Hurting The Hobby???
- Thread starter Tony
- Start date
Keith
Member
When I came back to RC a few years ago I was surprised how it had turned to electric. When I left the only battery on the model powered the Rx and servos. Now it looked so clean and tidy that I thought I would get back into it. There was a lot to learn so off to the LHS to find out more. I still had some old model aircraft so thought I would electrify them. The LHS owner was fairly helpful and treated me like someone buying their first set up which I suppose I was. "You will need one of these battery chargers, these new type of connectors to fit on your batteries (XT60s)". I had a few battery packs, NiCad etc, so did not get any more until I charged them up and see if they were any good. Anyway I walked out of the shop $250 lighter. I know it was a hot headed decision and I should have looked into it more before I spent my money.
After a few weeks I started getting my head around this new technology. Then I started looking on the net for info. I found HobbyKing and felt like a kid in the lolly shop. I checked up on the things I had spent $250 in the LHS a month or so before. I could have got it from HK for less than $50. I have only been back to the LHS once when I needed prop adapter, urgent. He charged me $3.50. That night I ordered a pack of five for $4.00 online. If China closed down tomorrow I would give this hobby away as there is no way I could afford it.
After a few weeks I started getting my head around this new technology. Then I started looking on the net for info. I found HobbyKing and felt like a kid in the lolly shop. I checked up on the things I had spent $250 in the LHS a month or so before. I could have got it from HK for less than $50. I have only been back to the LHS once when I needed prop adapter, urgent. He charged me $3.50. That night I ordered a pack of five for $4.00 online. If China closed down tomorrow I would give this hobby away as there is no way I could afford it.
Ok i'll put my ten cence in, I live in China and know a fair amount about the production processes out here,
Reading through this thread I can say that you are all right, strange as it may seem, pretty much anything you buy is actually made in China even if its a western company that is responsible for it's production, the production laws are real simple, anything can be copied as long as there are 3 differences, this can be colour, size, sticker placement etc. and because China is soo big it takes a western ideal of free enterprise, meaning anyone can copy/produce anything.
As far as buying Chinese made stuff you need to use the "pay for what you get" rule, I and the Chinese will be the first to admit that there is some real crap being produced here, but on the flip side there is also some very high quality stuff being made simply because when a western company gets something made here that technology is then used and copied and in alot of cases improved.
The best thing is to judge what you buy by trial and error, and I for one try and buy western branded stuff, unless i have knowledge of where something was made, for instance my Iphone is a clone but it is made in the same factory as a real Iphone, meaning its identicle to the real thing but i can never upgrade it because it will lock, because it has a slightly different software program
As far as Align goes, all their parts are made in China under license as with all western brands (because of production costs), but the quality is the best it can be, ive learned this through my own heli which is a SkyA/Tarot 250 clone, all the Chinese made moving parts have broken/worn out or to be fair something i did wrong, and so ive now replaced these with real align parts and it flies great
I also have the luxury of buying all my parts for a third of what most people pay because of the Chinese Ebay (Toabao) where everything is really cheap and for me easy to get as far as shipping
My advice is look at the Chinese suppliers and do the following, check the price, compare it to what you can get it for in your native country, decide if your saving money once shipping is accounted for, research who and where its made, and always bear in mind that its abit like buying a used car there is always a chance something could go wrong
Hope this helps
Reading through this thread I can say that you are all right, strange as it may seem, pretty much anything you buy is actually made in China even if its a western company that is responsible for it's production, the production laws are real simple, anything can be copied as long as there are 3 differences, this can be colour, size, sticker placement etc. and because China is soo big it takes a western ideal of free enterprise, meaning anyone can copy/produce anything.
As far as buying Chinese made stuff you need to use the "pay for what you get" rule, I and the Chinese will be the first to admit that there is some real crap being produced here, but on the flip side there is also some very high quality stuff being made simply because when a western company gets something made here that technology is then used and copied and in alot of cases improved.
The best thing is to judge what you buy by trial and error, and I for one try and buy western branded stuff, unless i have knowledge of where something was made, for instance my Iphone is a clone but it is made in the same factory as a real Iphone, meaning its identicle to the real thing but i can never upgrade it because it will lock, because it has a slightly different software program
As far as Align goes, all their parts are made in China under license as with all western brands (because of production costs), but the quality is the best it can be, ive learned this through my own heli which is a SkyA/Tarot 250 clone, all the Chinese made moving parts have broken/worn out or to be fair something i did wrong, and so ive now replaced these with real align parts and it flies great
I also have the luxury of buying all my parts for a third of what most people pay because of the Chinese Ebay (Toabao) where everything is really cheap and for me easy to get as far as shipping
My advice is look at the Chinese suppliers and do the following, check the price, compare it to what you can get it for in your native country, decide if your saving money once shipping is accounted for, research who and where its made, and always bear in mind that its abit like buying a used car there is always a chance something could go wrong
Hope this helps
someguyinsandy
Crash Test Dummy
Bonus, or a new advance replacement policy - you decide!
breeze400
Spagetti Pilot
China heck! I can't find a quad motor that's not coming out of china! What's going on here! You mean the good old USA has not got a RC supply store some where in the land that carries quad motors? Every motor I've looked at since this morning is coming out of China! Hmmmmm!!! And no I repete no lol!!!
How about flipping this discussion on its head!
How many of us would be in this hobby if we still had to pay what the local hobby shop demanded of us.
I am getting back into RC after 25 years. When I decided I could not indulge myself back then the only source of kit was the local hobby shop. As far as I remember, For a basic RC transmitter and receiver set they wanted hundreds of my hard earned dollars, in todays money may be near a couple of thousand. Now you can get a Chinese made transmitter and receiver for a little more than $60 that is as good as the more expensive units.
Or let me put it another way. Back then I would have had to have spent the equivalent to 4 to 6 weeks pay to get started. Now I get the same for a day or twos pay.
And these days there is so much more choice. For me getting back into RC, I can still spend thousands and get a top of the line, tight tolerance engineered machine that I can potentially crash the same as a cheapie from china. I know which I'd prefer to learn on!
I can also afford to have a foamie and a multirotor and an Align TRex and what ever else takes my fancy. I am limited only by my wallet and space. 25 years ago I would have spent months building a balsa and doped fabric winged plane with a Cox screamer and two, three or even four channel RC transmitter if I was lucky, and been broke!
Yes the quality is a bit to be desired, but if it is quality and the ability to complain when things go wrong then the local hobby shop is still there. I know once I have mastered a few skills and want to upgrade to a quality machine then I am likely to frequent local rather than try pot luck mail orders.
But for now I just want winter to buggar off so I can go fly my AXN!
How many of us would be in this hobby if we still had to pay what the local hobby shop demanded of us.
I am getting back into RC after 25 years. When I decided I could not indulge myself back then the only source of kit was the local hobby shop. As far as I remember, For a basic RC transmitter and receiver set they wanted hundreds of my hard earned dollars, in todays money may be near a couple of thousand. Now you can get a Chinese made transmitter and receiver for a little more than $60 that is as good as the more expensive units.
Or let me put it another way. Back then I would have had to have spent the equivalent to 4 to 6 weeks pay to get started. Now I get the same for a day or twos pay.
And these days there is so much more choice. For me getting back into RC, I can still spend thousands and get a top of the line, tight tolerance engineered machine that I can potentially crash the same as a cheapie from china. I know which I'd prefer to learn on!
I can also afford to have a foamie and a multirotor and an Align TRex and what ever else takes my fancy. I am limited only by my wallet and space. 25 years ago I would have spent months building a balsa and doped fabric winged plane with a Cox screamer and two, three or even four channel RC transmitter if I was lucky, and been broke!
Yes the quality is a bit to be desired, but if it is quality and the ability to complain when things go wrong then the local hobby shop is still there. I know once I have mastered a few skills and want to upgrade to a quality machine then I am likely to frequent local rather than try pot luck mail orders.
But for now I just want winter to buggar off so I can go fly my AXN!
murankar
Staff member
Regardless of my ranting if it were not for poor quality parts I too would not have gotten this far.
On the same token I have spent more on my model due to cheap parts so is it really cheaper. I have spent at least $40 on tail rotor shafts due to novice pilot landings. Since I bought my tarot tail shafts I have yet to bend one and I still have my share of hard landings. Tarot is a Chinese company that offers a higher quality product that is the closet to align quality.
Tomorrow I will complete my upgrades to name brand stuff just short of a new heli. I am still flying with stock hard wear for the most part but the electronics will all be non-Chinese. My final upgrade will be to my tx/rx, that won't happen for some time due to cost.
My tx/rx is the fly sky th9x. One issue I have found so far is the plastic used does not like high humidity. The collective stick will not move smoothly from time to time. Strangely enough the cyclic does not seem to be effected.
On the same token I have spent more on my model due to cheap parts so is it really cheaper. I have spent at least $40 on tail rotor shafts due to novice pilot landings. Since I bought my tarot tail shafts I have yet to bend one and I still have my share of hard landings. Tarot is a Chinese company that offers a higher quality product that is the closet to align quality.
Tomorrow I will complete my upgrades to name brand stuff just short of a new heli. I am still flying with stock hard wear for the most part but the electronics will all be non-Chinese. My final upgrade will be to my tx/rx, that won't happen for some time due to cost.
My tx/rx is the fly sky th9x. One issue I have found so far is the plastic used does not like high humidity. The collective stick will not move smoothly from time to time. Strangely enough the cyclic does not seem to be effected.
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yes both the last points are very valid, i remember when i was a kid i wanted a heli but they were at least £2000 for a basic level and it was only in nitro form, now anyone can get into this hobby because of advances in electronics etc.
so the cheapies do serve a purpose and yes over time when i think how much i have spent on parts i also think that maybe i should of bought a better heli but again flipping this and bearing in mind how many times ive crashed while learning im glad i did have a cheap one to start, and now with more knowledge and flight experience i can look forward to saving up for better heli
so the cheapies do serve a purpose and yes over time when i think how much i have spent on parts i also think that maybe i should of bought a better heli but again flipping this and bearing in mind how many times ive crashed while learning im glad i did have a cheap one to start, and now with more knowledge and flight experience i can look forward to saving up for better heli
RandyDSok
Well-Known Member
History has shown us as most new companies just getting into the business of mass marketing... Quality issues are not only common, they seem to be rule when these companies begin and later, if they are/were successful, then they learn that they can't skimp quality and also stay in business.
Anyone that thinks these companies are being greedy are simply showing their own ignorance in what it really takes to produce a quality product. Starting with the Japanese, we had Toyota and Datsun ( Nissan ) who started exporting cheap vehicles and are now producing some of the best ones available. Korea is now starting to get to that point, though they aren't there yet.
So while these companies start with cheap products, they eventually see that to be successful they must produce a higher quality part instead... resulting in higher costs in the end.
China is just now starting to ramp up their own production... so it shouldn't surprise us that many are starting off with cheap stuff right now... They will either learn or they will fade into the background or go out of business completely.
Where the Chinese are doing things differently, and is completely wrong IMO, is the area of "intellectual property" issues. They have not learned that without supporting the inventor's of the products being created... that they are "shooting themselves in their own foot"... If the inventor has no protection for their ideas so they can make a living... why would they want to continue making new ideas/products.
China must learn that it is morally wrong to steal other peoples ideas... that just changing only 3 ( or even a more ) parts isn't enough to protect the intellectual properties that the inventor has in order to make it worth their efforts to be innovative.
Anyone that thinks these companies are being greedy are simply showing their own ignorance in what it really takes to produce a quality product. Starting with the Japanese, we had Toyota and Datsun ( Nissan ) who started exporting cheap vehicles and are now producing some of the best ones available. Korea is now starting to get to that point, though they aren't there yet.
So while these companies start with cheap products, they eventually see that to be successful they must produce a higher quality part instead... resulting in higher costs in the end.
China is just now starting to ramp up their own production... so it shouldn't surprise us that many are starting off with cheap stuff right now... They will either learn or they will fade into the background or go out of business completely.
Where the Chinese are doing things differently, and is completely wrong IMO, is the area of "intellectual property" issues. They have not learned that without supporting the inventor's of the products being created... that they are "shooting themselves in their own foot"... If the inventor has no protection for their ideas so they can make a living... why would they want to continue making new ideas/products.
China must learn that it is morally wrong to steal other peoples ideas... that just changing only 3 ( or even a more ) parts isn't enough to protect the intellectual properties that the inventor has in order to make it worth their efforts to be innovative.
Well, it's been a while since I was here last and this is the first topic I saw - so I'll chime in too.
I'm very new to this hobby but I agree with nearly all the posts/replies above. Having said that, I do not think that Chinese product is hurting the hobby, from my limited and dis-jointed time in it.
I wouldn't be in this hobby at all if it wasn't for Chinese product and it's associated lower costs. But at the same time (and thanks to advice on this forum), I've upgraded some integral parts that are of a higher quality, and in most cases that's upgraded the cost too. That's fine though, because it's still cheaper overall than buying an Align, for example - which I will do once I learn to crash on my HK500GT.
This maybe a naive statement but I would not think that people are buying Chinese product and thinking they're the duck's guts (sorry for the Aussie slang).
I'm very new to this hobby but I agree with nearly all the posts/replies above. Having said that, I do not think that Chinese product is hurting the hobby, from my limited and dis-jointed time in it.
I wouldn't be in this hobby at all if it wasn't for Chinese product and it's associated lower costs. But at the same time (and thanks to advice on this forum), I've upgraded some integral parts that are of a higher quality, and in most cases that's upgraded the cost too. That's fine though, because it's still cheaper overall than buying an Align, for example - which I will do once I learn to crash on my HK500GT.
This maybe a naive statement but I would not think that people are buying Chinese product and thinking they're the duck's guts (sorry for the Aussie slang).
Tony
Staff member
I think you forgot the word "Not" in there lol. If your like me, you can crash anything with ease lol.
john2012
Banned
john here from brilliant ohio and i will not by another heli from china and banana hobby they are junk paid 169.99 for a blitzrcworks 400 class heli yes it is made in china it was rtf crap never flew and have replaced 80 percent of the parts and nothing banana hobby sucks and have lost my me from bying from them again im just going to waite and get a 450 t-rex rtf that i know i will fly. hope all are doing fine keep flying
as ive said in this one before "you pay for what you get", there are things you have to watch for but easy to replace, and the key thing in this whole debate is to remember that even align are made in China so whatever you buy its gonna be made right here even if the manufacturers claim otherwise, its not just helis its everything, japanese, american, german cars are made here, nanjin autos owns what was Rover cars, over 90% of pushbikes are made here, some companies say assembled in their home countries but the parts and frames are made and produced here, all the biggest electrical companies make their products here
the real fact is that labour is cheap and more importantly the quality is the same if not better than other countries because of years of investment by foriegn companies and the chinese really are not stupid and have developed their own tech to compete, one case was a few yeas ago a chinese computer company developed a chip that was far faster, more powerful and more reliable than anything microsoft could produce and because of this microsoft got this chip banned from being exported to other countries, so the chinese kept it and use it in their home made computer systems, there is still ofcourse some real garbage being produced but its easier to spot nowadays
so you can bash chinese quality etc. but whatever you buy is made here somehow, and most of us in this hobby would not be in it because we cant afford a few thousand like 20 years ago when i just dreamed of owning an RC heli, now i can own as many as i want
the real fact is that labour is cheap and more importantly the quality is the same if not better than other countries because of years of investment by foriegn companies and the chinese really are not stupid and have developed their own tech to compete, one case was a few yeas ago a chinese computer company developed a chip that was far faster, more powerful and more reliable than anything microsoft could produce and because of this microsoft got this chip banned from being exported to other countries, so the chinese kept it and use it in their home made computer systems, there is still ofcourse some real garbage being produced but its easier to spot nowadays
so you can bash chinese quality etc. but whatever you buy is made here somehow, and most of us in this hobby would not be in it because we cant afford a few thousand like 20 years ago when i just dreamed of owning an RC heli, now i can own as many as i want
RandyDSok
Well-Known Member
Microsoft is in the software business primarily... they don't make chips, though I'm sure they have some designed for some of their hardware products they also sell, still those are made by other companies such as Intel and others... So to say that MS had some chips banned from export is rather hard to believe since they are not in the chip business and have nothing to gain
murankar
Staff member
Tony has mentioned before while major brands have stuff produced in China, the Chinese still has to follow quality standards of their customer. When they produce products on their own that when the quality goes south. For some strange reason when it comes to their own products QA / QC goes right out the door, but when someone is paying to have stuff made buy then then the QA / QC department rocks.
I believe that Chinese stuff is so cheap is because they don't care what hits the market as long as it hits the market. They have no scrap to worry about or anything like that. When you trim that overhead out of your budget it can make the quarterlies look real good. Could be the reason why it's hit or miss with their stuff.
I believe that Chinese stuff is so cheap is because they don't care what hits the market as long as it hits the market. They have no scrap to worry about or anything like that. When you trim that overhead out of your budget it can make the quarterlies look real good. Could be the reason why it's hit or miss with their stuff.
flysolo
Member
+1
No american company could ban anything from being exported from China, that's just ridiculous.
Norny
New Member
Hi all,
Newbie here so excuse the ignorance, I've been talking to my friend who got me to buy my first syma which hasn't arrived yet, he has been flying these toys for years and was winding me up at how he will stuff me in a dog fight. Now that I ordered one and have been researching online I have came to the conclusion with the help of this site and others that this is a good introduction into flying but you will learn nothing.
In my research I have found buy cheap and buy twice, this is nothing new to the smart consumer but after reading all these posts it has confirmed what we already knew but people i.e my friend for various reasons still won't take my advice when I told him I'm buying a quality blade fp heli. He is gonna buy a nine eagles solo pro 328 a knock off of the 120sr.
Financial reasons aside for his decision will I be proved to be wrong and his model be as good as my future purchase? I hope not but thats because I will be jealous off his bravery in taking chances were I have confidence in brands and this is coming from an ax golfer who started of with a second hand set only through snobbery upgraded to pro brand which wasn't any better.
Please tell my this is not the case in this hobby and quality brands are better.
Norny.
Newbie here so excuse the ignorance, I've been talking to my friend who got me to buy my first syma which hasn't arrived yet, he has been flying these toys for years and was winding me up at how he will stuff me in a dog fight. Now that I ordered one and have been researching online I have came to the conclusion with the help of this site and others that this is a good introduction into flying but you will learn nothing.
In my research I have found buy cheap and buy twice, this is nothing new to the smart consumer but after reading all these posts it has confirmed what we already knew but people i.e my friend for various reasons still won't take my advice when I told him I'm buying a quality blade fp heli. He is gonna buy a nine eagles solo pro 328 a knock off of the 120sr.
Financial reasons aside for his decision will I be proved to be wrong and his model be as good as my future purchase? I hope not but thats because I will be jealous off his bravery in taking chances were I have confidence in brands and this is coming from an ax golfer who started of with a second hand set only through snobbery upgraded to pro brand which wasn't any better.
Please tell my this is not the case in this hobby and quality brands are better.
Norny.