The Chinese, Helping Or Hurting The Hobby???

[heli-maniac]

all in all the Nine Eagle is a good bird i have had 2 of them still have 1 in my fleet and its a solo pro v2 with lots of mods
but all my big birds are ALIGN now and i will not buy any cheap clone stuff again the clones you have to spend as much if not more to get them to fly well. i have been down that road

 

[Lee]

There is some crap out there but nine eagles is actually a good heli. The only restriction is, the "toy"radio it comes with will only work with that heli, whereas the DX6I with the 120SR is a true computer radio that will go with you from model to model.

 

[xokia]

There is some crap out there but nine eagles is actually a good heli. The only restriction is, the "toy"radio it comes with will only work with that heli, whereas the DX6I with the 120SR is a true computer radio that will go with you from model to model.

I agree I have the solo pro 100d and the radio is the downside. I try not to buy Chinese products or only buy things that if I lost the money it would be no big deal. Hobby Kings warranty or customer service is non existant. Its laughable that they even say they have a warranty at all.

I dealt with them on a dead battery I received. First they asked for a picture. So I took a picture with the battery next to the charger showing the capacity. Then they told me they needed a video. After that they asked me to mail it back to them at my expense so they could test it. At that point I told them to piss off I was tired of wasting my time.

 

[Tony]

That right there that is posted above is a GREAT reason NOT to buy from China. They say they will work things out, but it will cost you double in the end to get something replaced. and with a 50%+ failure rate from China, it's just not worth it IMO.

 

[john2012]

yep that's right chinese junk not good for the flying hobby, even the crap from banana hobby theirs is crap and the service after sucks too not bying from them ever thanks john2012

 

[Tony]

Had to edit your post John. We have a 50 post rule on here for selling stuff because of some past issues. But, you have been posting pretty good here lately and you will be there pretty quickly. Sorry for the inconvenience.

 

[Whirlybird]

I dealt with them on a dead battery I received. First they asked for a picture. So I took a picture with the battery next to the charger showing the capacity. Then they told me they needed a video. After that they asked me to mail it back to them at my expense so they could test it. At that point I told them to piss off I was tired of wasting my time.

Same here. I ordered three 6 cells for my 500 heli, one was defective . . . went through the same gauntlet

 

[xokia]

That right there that is posted above is a GREAT reason NOT to buy from China. They say they will work things out, but it will cost you double in the end to get something replaced. and with a 50%+ failure rate from China, it's just not worth it IMO.

I think it's a cultural difference also. We have been spoiled here in the US with open markets and competition. We are used to the customer is always right and being able to return things. If you have traveled outside the US much you will find that is not the norm. So foreign companies that want to do business here takes a while for them to learn that. It also requires the person steering the company be smart enough to recognize these things. With profit margins being driven to almost zero even US companies are starting to move in the same direction as the Chinese. It's harder to return things at just about all companies these days.

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I dont know how large hobby-wing is but I have had the opposite experience with them. They had shipped me the wrong parts by mistake I snapped a photo and sent it to them. They refunded my money instantly which was about $40 in parts. I offered to ship the parts back to them and they paid for the return shipping.

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I spend a few thousand dollars a year on hobby related things. So a $20 battery cost hobby king some serious money in the future. I would never purchase anything from them other then batteries going forward.

 

[zenmetsu]

It is not a cultural difference... this is what happens in a free market. People build crap and try to sell it, someone gets burned, negative reviews are posted, product stops selling. Likewise someone builds something awesome, someone is pleased, positive reviews are posted, product gains popularity. This model transcends borders and cultures.

The problem is that the cheap chinese goods often are counterfeit, sold as something that they are not for the sole purpose of deception and making a quick buck. The problem here is that word quickly gets out that "name brand" goods from company XYZ are counterfeit, and then the whole company suffers. These folk only make money due to uninformed individuals looking to get a bargain.

Now as for Chinese helping or hurting this hobby, since this is my first post, I will say that they are ultimately helping it. The pros are:
1. Align is Chinese... and they make a decent product.
2. Some of the clones are quite nice. This forces the price down for all models including the name brand models.
3. The production is currently insane because it costs Align and other companies next to nothing to make a model, but they will easily make $100+ in profits. This creates a surplus that further drops prices and prevents shortages. If you want a Trex, you can have one. No need to wait months for the factory to spit out a few new units.

The same can be said for the secondary parts market. Most of us have not problem finding a local shop that sells Align parts.

The cons? Well, you guys are all supporting China. The current barrier to market entry is immense. No outfit in the United States could hope to start up factory production of a comparable helicopter and sell it for a competitive price without incurring some serious losses. The start-up capital alone would sink all but the most ambitious of individuals. Still, there are folks like me that would gladly pay an extra 50% to have something built and supported domestically.

The sad part is when competition forces the domestic factories to close shop. This causes competing models to be eliminated to the point that all we see are a bunch of Trex clones. Sure, you can go with some of the specialty models like the SAB or MSHeli, etc, but these will either suffer from higher costs, lower durability, or some other tradeoff due to the fierce competition. Even if you do go this route, parts availability becomes an issue.

 

[murankar]

Actually Align is not Chinese, it's Taiwan.

 

[xokia]

It is not a cultural difference... this is what happens in a free market. People build crap and try to sell it, someone gets burned, negative reviews are posted, product stops selling. Likewise someone builds something awesome, someone is pleased, positive reviews are posted, product gains popularity. This model transcends borders

Coming from an American consumer? I've been to China, Germany,Mexico, India and Japan. Japan having a closer market to ours. Just try and get your money back in some of these other countries.

We all understand how economics work we dont need a losson. But just like the US, foriegn market places can be more complex then basic free enterprise concepts. China has the largest population. Do you really think we will put a dent in there sales for our helicopter parts? Hobby king from what I understand is one of the largest suppliers in China. We are a tiny fraction of their total sales volume. So are are negative posts, their main customers won't even read our complaints.

Personally I think they do more harm then good. The companies that just slap their name on Chinese products and sell them in the US I don't think the Chinese are doing us any harm. Such as batteries the majority come from china regardless of who's name brand is on it. They aren't ripping off intellectual property with batteries IMO. But this entire concept where they only need to change 3 things is BS. And this is where they are hurting the hobby. Such as spektrum receivers and clone helicopters. The people developing this stuff have less incentive to invent new technology if it's just going to get ripped off.

The US also hurts itself IMO. How companies like apple can patent the square phone and have it stand up in court is beyond me. The US has to strict of patent laws and the Chinese way to lax.

 

[zenmetsu]

Taiwan... republic of _

 

[murankar]

I don't know who they fall under, all I know is that Align is made in Taiwan by Taiwanese people.

 

[Tony]

Taiwan is an island SE of china and NE of the Philippines. But, this is not an accurate comparison. Yes, Taiwan may be local to China, but we are local to Mexico and you don't see the massive drug wars here in the USA, not like Mexico anyway. Same with Cuba and the like. Just because they are in the same region of the world, doesn't mean they are the same. Japan is also an island to the east of china and we regard them to have the greatest electronics out there. Every cap on my mobo in my computer was made there.

 

[zenmetsu]

Tony, I was kidding, because it is Taiwan, Republic of China after all.

And what I said still holds. If all Chinese goods are horrible, then someone will make a better product and charge a higher price. Sure, the Chinese goods will continue to sell, but eventually they may try to increase quality to grab more sales and the cycle of increased quality and decreased price will continue.

Take a look at where the R/C helicopter market was 10 years ago. Granted, technological advancements have made many things possible, but the competition has brought prices down to where more people can enter the hobby. I know that there was no way that I was going to get a heli a decade ago.

 

[Tony]

This thread is pretty long and some things are lost in the wording. So with this in mind I must reiterate. If the Chinese start making things at high quality like Align or Sony, then I would have no issue at all purchasing from them. In fact there are a lot of things that are made in china, but they must follow the developers instructions on how to produce the item. China is capable of producing good products, but they choose to produce cheap knockoffs of things that are already out there. Not long ago, Obama did something against the Chinese for patent infringement. Cant' remember what for, but I know it happened.

 

[dony45]

There are some websites dedicated to the HK Clones. I don't think they are that poorly made from reading the comments of people that have built them. I think places like hobby king
give some people who can't affrd a high quality heli to at least start in the sport. That is where I don't think they are hurting the hobby. I did a lot of research on Clones and read a lot
of comments from people who built them and ordered everything I needed from Hobby King. I didn't want to spend a ton since I was just getting into the sport and it was only going to be one of many hobbies I already had.

Well a friend of mine who actually got me into the sport kept pushing me to buy an Align helicopter. I kept telling him a lot of people have built clones and are perfectly happy. Well he finally got to me and I bought a Trex 450 sport. It is one nice machine. My Hobby King kit is still on my bench and you can see the difference in quality. I for one probably would never have taken up the sport because of the cost but I got the bug and I am now building a trex 500 EFL Pro. The longer your in the sport the more you appreciate quality but I don't think there is anything wrong with Hobby king for those just starting. I still order some stuff from them like batteries , connectors, wires, ect., but my charger is high end FMA Powerlab 8.

So my feeling is cheap gets people into the sport who if they enjoy it will eventually buy higher end products which help higher end companies get new customers.

 

[Westy]

Hey Dony .... I completely agree. I must have spent $1000 all up in cheap helis..... Imagine which SAB Goblin I would have built with that sort of funding.

I must say though that going cheap make the piloting learning curve a lot harder due to components that are just not up to par....... making it harder to keep it in the air.... but mostly that is pilot error

anyway that is my 10 cents worth

 

[Lee]

When you learn, you're gonna crash. Would you rather crash an Align 450 or a HK 450? Once you crash you can upgrade with align parts. "So why not go align in the first place?" I here you say. Well because those first crashes will have cost you more money in original Align parts.
There are some bad clones out there for sure, but if you do your research, you can find good clones out there. Don't just buy that 450 on Ebay from a Chinese outlet store.
I had two HK 450GTs. They are coming up to three years old and still going strong. I also had a CopterX 500 which was fantastic and is also still going strong. i have upgraded it over time with some align parts. I have my Chaos 600 which by all accounts is a clone, but in fact is an upgrade of the Align 600 ESP for less money.

If you really look into things from the past, Align is actually a clone. The original Trex 450 was a clone of the Raptor 30. The 700 tail is a clone from KDE, the DFC head is a Clone from Compass.

I did months of research before buying my original HK450GT, read all the reviews, which were 99% positive and the same for all the electronics i bought for it.

Now that i'm a better pilot and don't crash as much, I feel i can spend that extra cash on a known brand heli like my Compass Warp. I appreciate the quality, but even they and Align and all the big names have there quality issues like the clones.

Enjoy your heli, which ever it is.

 

[murankar]

I have gone the cheap route myself at first. I was able to get in the air in about 3 months. I was able to learn quite a bit prior to my real kit. In the end I ended up with a pile of a kit that I have no interest in fixing at this time. So now I am out the $75 for the frame and what ever spare parts I have for it.

I personally wished I would have went with the quality side from the beginning. Good thing is that now I have the stuff for a cheap plank.

Going against this I am going to make an HK purchase for my foamy bipe. I can't see spending a lot of cash on a "trainer" when I know it will get destroyed on my first landing.