450 Tail Breaks loose

[billryalls]

That should help!

and don't worry about "not knowing". Each of us started out that way. It's all a part of the game.

Good luck!

Thanks Derek. Ok. Here is a video of my ATTEMPt at hovering. Why does it want to shoot to it's left before liftoff? My Trex and 130x usually will lift straight off. AND is that having something to do with me having to keep constantly moving the sticks just to keep it in my yard, let alone hover it? Well put your seat belts on as this is a pretty wild test hover. The good news is that this was built by me and is attempting to fly. If you think, after watching this, that it's just me as a pilot causing the drifts I can handle it. .

[video=youtube_share;Q1uUpMRqLts]http://youtu.be/Q1uUpMRqLts[/video]

 

[billryalls]

Lol just watched this and realized I couldn't even keep the sucker in the field of view...

 

[Tony]

The moving to the left is completely normal. It's due to the force of the air coming out of the tail blades. The wobble of the helicopter means you need to raise the head speed. I would raise it by 10% and go from there. My suggested throttle curve is 0 45 70 70 70 for a helicopter like this (SE V2). my SE V2 HATES low head speeds and I have to run 85%+ throttle just to keep it stable in the air.

 

[billryalls]

Super, Tony, I'll try those changes when I get home and give it a try! Uh... how to I raise head speed on my dx6i?

 

[Tony]

To into the Throttle Curve menu and set them to what I have posted above.

 

[billryalls]

Wow, Tony, what a difference! Went to 0-45-70-70-70 and all of a sudden everything is a bit better and the bobbing almost non-existant now. Thanks again! Just so I know WHY I made those change or, mostly, why they worked...what happened? I mean with a linear throttle curve it still gets to the required rpm to lift off so why does changing it (more or less wiping out the lower thresholds) suddenly make it so stable? Well, here is the video after making your changes. Please excuse it S it is a horrible video (half of it contains nothing as I was hovering too high) it's from my iphone and I have no help.

[video=youtube_share;WWtG9K5s-Vo]http://youtu.be/WWtG9K5s-Vo[/video]

 

[Andydrew1964]

That looks way better dude , well done!

 

[billryalls]

Thanks!!

- - - Updated - - -

You'll make it too! This place RC-help is MY new home. Lol

 

[Derek]

That was a great flight buddy! Very well done! The helicopter is more stable simply because there is less going on at the same time. With a linear pitch curve and a linear throttle curve, your throttle and pitch are constantly changing....both at the same time. Collective stick goes up, so does the throttle and pitch. Collective stick goes down, so does the throttle and pitch. Now...you changed your throttle curve to 70, from mid to high stick. This means that once you are past mid stick, your throttle never changes and you are now controlling the helicopter with the pitch, alone. it's much much easier...especially for beginners. Well over a year ago, I came to Tony with the same issues and inconsistencies with my helicopter. He suggested the same throttle curve and my Trex 500 became much more enjoyable to fly.

I now have my throttle curve, in normal mode, at 0,45,75,75,75 and it's incredibly stable and so much more fun. I still have a linear pitch curve but that's ok because once I get above mid stick, my throttle is flat at 75 and I'm simply controlling the elevation with the pitch. Just awesome!!!

Keep practicing, bill, and you'll get better and better. By the way....that was a great landing, too! Well done and Thumbs up!!!

 

[Tony]

That was quite a bit better, great job

However, I did hear the motor still going up in rpm as you were adding collective (left stick). The motor RPM should stay the same and only the pitch of the blades should change which would actually LOWER the rpm of the motor as you are adding collective.

I would set, in Normal mode, your Throttle Curve to 0 45 70 70 70 and your Pitch curve to 46 48 50 75 100. Remember, this is in NORMAL mode and make sure not to get the pitch and throttle mixed up.

As for the theory as to why it gets more stable, there is a lot to that. I'm thinking that your pitch may be slightly off since you are dropping throttle when you come down. You should have 0º of pitch at mid stick with about 10º at full positive and negative stick (with a linear pitch curve, not the one that I posted above. The one above, after you set your linear up with 10º negative, you should have about -2º of pitch at low stick). If you set it up like this, then I know it will get even more stable than it is now with a higher head speed.

The reason it gets more stable is from a gyro effect. Remember those gyros that you spun on the tables? It's the same theory. The faster they go, the more "locked in" they are and the more they wanted to stay in one place. But, as it slowed down, it starts to wobble. This analogy makes sense to me, now lets see if it makes sense to the rest of the world lmao. Hope this helps.

 

[billryalls]

Thanks, Derek & Tony! Ill make the changes. Ill mention that when I set up this helicopter the positive pitch was 10.5 while neg pitch was 8.5 and since EVERYTHING else lined up right, was perfectly level, etc I left it that way. Bad idea? This IS getting more and more fun. RF-7 is preordered too (now Im having probs with my 130x which I'll post elsewhere) If the rain stops ill make those changes and give it a try! thanks again all!

 

[Tony]

What that means with your pitch is that your swash is too high. If you have more positive than negative, then you need to shorten the servo to swash links. If you have more negative than positive, then you need to extend the links from servos to swash. I try to get everything within .5º so that I know I have the same pitch positive and negative.

 

[billryalls]

ok, Tony, will do, thanks.

 

[billryalls]

What that means with your pitch is that your swash is too high. If you have more positive than negative, then you need to shorten the servo to swash links. If you have more negative than positive, then you need to extend the links from servos to swash. I try to get everything within .5º so that I know I have the same pitch positive and negative.

Ok, i took it out to a big field today (before making the link adjustments) and it flew (hovered) won derfully EXCEPT that it definitely likes to drift to the left and slightly spin the same direction AND when i hit the throttle hard as it went up fast it also spun hard till i let off throttle (which was quick) could this all be attributable to the unattended link adjustments?

 

[Tony]

The tail blowing out is due to that gyro. For $12, to be completely honest, you get what you pay for. And with a linear throttle curve, it's going to be even worse. Drifting to the left is normal on take off and must be compensated after lifting off the ground. Try running a flat throttle curve above 25% throttle, that should help out teh tail a bit, but I would HIGHLY suggest you get a Quark or Align gyro and a good tail servo for that tail. It will be a whole new helicopter.

 

[orbi]

Just a thought ,1. have you got equal movement left and right stick? 2. also sounds like a reversed Gyro. 3 make sure the tail blades are right way round if theyre in back to front then they wont work right and that the tail rotor is functioning properly.4. make sure the belt is wrapped the right way around gears if you got a sport, a clockwise turn on main shaft should make the top of the tail rotor blade turn "away" from the front of the heli. 5. check the set on the gyro for as/ds analogue or digital.

 

[billryalls]

Just a thought ,1. have you got equal movement left and right stick? 2. also sounds like a reversed Gyro. 3 make sure the tail blades are right way round if theyre in back to front then they wont work right and that the tail rotor is functioning properly.4. make sure the belt is wrapped the right way around gears if you got a sport, a clockwise turn on main shaft should make the top of the tail rotor blade turn "away" from the front of the heli. 5. check the set on the gyro for as/ds analogue or digital.

Thanks, Orbi, but if any of your 4 suggestions were the problem I wouldnt even be able to hover, or would I?

 

[orbi]

Just one other point.... I dontknow if this helps but I always set my tail so that I am in positive pitch already on spooling up. first disconnect motor.. put at midstick (throttle) switch to rate mode on TX ( red light shows on gyro!,)
I fold the two tail blades up and rotate them so they are pointing towards me looking from rear..... the TOP blade should be 3/4 inch to 1 inch apart from the bottom blade with the tip pointing TOWARDS the LEFT. . I always set my tail this way ( adjust with control rod link for fine tuning) and find that this works everytime.

When spooling up on a hard surface all tails will move slightly anyways.

 

[billryalls]

Thanks, Orbi.

 

[billryalls]

New problem. With my HK450 my tail rudder turns one way only. If I give it left rudder it turns all the way left. Give it right and it just sits there?? I can move the servo or tail mechs back or forth to center it but it still just moves in one direction. What simple thing am i forgetting? Dx9 with a cheap Detrum Gyro.