The Chinese, Helping Or Hurting The Hobby???

[vimy]

I've purchased some small RC test gear and so far it all seems fine. All except one were delivered well before time, some of it free postage to Australia. There was only one seller who hasn't delivered yet and I am pursuing that one, luckily for me, it was only $10 AUD.

I probably won't buy anything expensive from China like aircraft or avionics, before I have a chance to find out the durability of the products I already have.

The Taranis transmitter has had good reviews and with it's opensource operating system, it is a very flexible and highly configurable unit. It will probably be my next transmitter if I decide on another one.

Most gear, including the PL-8 chargers and the Spektrum DX9, I have are all from Asia.

If it was only Japanese, US and European gear available, I could not afford to get back into the hobby.

Specifically Chinese gear is of varying quality, that is to be expected and kept in mind when buying from there. I try to do as much research as possible by reading modeler's comments on forums like this.

Overall, I have no problem with it.

The one non-Chinese or Asian piece of gear I'm pleased to have, is my US made DuBro propeller balancer and the extended spindle accessory for large props. I won't compromise by buying cheap for this test instrument and DuBro is the only one I seriously considered.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi all, I know I'm new and this thread has been running for some time now. However, I was located out there in South East Asia and parts were extremely cheap and readily available. I've got no Problem with that as I didn't experience any failures due to quality, only my own ineptitude! I could destroy those pars faster that the Chinese could produce them!!! Gave me a lot of re-build practice though (always look for the positive, that's my motto!).

Seriously, now I'm back home in Switzerland, I'm looking for top quality, durability and reliability. Everything here is expensive, you just get used to that, it's the culture. I think the best way for all developing nations to go. The current culture here started almost 1000 years ago, so they know what they're doing, believe me!

Bye for now.

 

[Batwing]

6 months ago I got my first heli. RTF 6 axis WL Toys 977 for $100! Within 3 weeks I had two more a box of backup parts and 6 lipos all from China, Vietnam, etc. Cheap parts for cheap helicopters. Low cost but not reliable.

About 5 months ago I bought an Align TREX 550L Dominator kit from an online retailer in the US. Align is based in Taiwan (free china). Align is a company with a recognized brand, I think that makes a difference regarding product quality. They are in free china so they participate in the global market. The Beast X Giro is made by Germans, the ESC is by Castle in the Midwest USA,other components who knows. So far I am satisfied with the quality of this product especially when I compare it with the cost of a fancy Italian Goblin by Sab. http://www.rc-help.com/images/smilies/bling.gif

The issue that I have with a race to the bottom on manufacturing costs is the negative externalities. The lowest cost manufacturing locations have no environmental regulations, they pollute their air and their water and then the climate blows it around the globe. http://www.rc-help.com/images/smilies/warning.gif

I plan to take one of my Blade 230s down to the edge of the pacific ocean and take a few flights with my feet in the cool water and breathing fresh air. Happy 4th of July Weekend to all of you born in the USA!http://www.rc-help.com/images/smilies/fest30.gif

 

[Smoggie]

FWIW Castle ESC's are made in China and Mexico (but designed in the USA). The fact is almost all helicopters and helicopter parts are made in the far east, Goblins for instance are made in Vietnam, the only exceptions I can think of are some of the high end German brands.

I dont think you can necessarily draw a straight line between quality and country of manufacture. Cheap junk can be made anywhere, it's junk because it's made cheap, not because of the country of origin. There are plenty of good quality products that come out of China but you do have to pay a bit more. Castle ESC's being one example among many.

 

[Tony]

Just as a clarification, this article was created about the clone brands (HK, Tarot...), not for the ones that we say is quality. I could have worded it differently but remember when this article was written. It's over 4 years old now and back then, the chinese were making the push for cheaper builds at the sacrifice of quality. Yes, there are a lot of products that are made oversea's but they are to someone elses standard. The clone brands are chinese companies making chinese products. And their motto is quantity not quality. Whereas SAB, Align and the other large brands (that are being cloned) are quality over quantity.

 

[murankar]

Goblins are Italian designed and Italian controlled regardless of where the are fabricated. Now if you want to throw Goblin in the mix the 380 is being cloned right now. This could hurt or help SAB like the clones did for Align. I think the only reason Align did not go after the clones was due to the parts being bought. While you could say that the clones hurt the hobby one could easily say they help. Personally I feel they hurt the hobby because that new guy puts in his brand new kit and has to rekit the clone, while if it had been a brand name less would have been broken. This normally hurts the pilot and discourages them unless they decide to persevere. In the end clones are just gateways to the hobby.

 

[vimy]

A little off topic but anyway.....

I have a Luxo magnifier lamp purchased from Mouser Electronics. It is one of these:

http://www.luxo-lighting.com/SPD/lu...--45---22w--clamp-on--800019D0-1285015740.jsp

I wanted this one because it is an industrial model, BUT, they only come as 110vac despite being made in Norway. (HMMMM, whose market might that be for....)

So I purchased a Chinese made LED circular T8 tubes replace the 110vac starter circuit and Osram fluorescent tube, thus:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...60200723883.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.M8SHnX

The quality of these products are stunning and I would confidently buy from them again.

As long as you are careful and depending on what you buy, Chinese products can be every bit as good as anything else on the market. This company's customer service was just the best.

BTW, the installation of LED tube into the mag-lamp was a complete success.

If you have an old one of these Luxo lamps or can get one cheaply as I imagine you can in America, fit one of these LED tubes. Their operating range is 85vac to 265vac and replaces all of the old electrics in the mag-lamp.


Cheers

 

[Stambo]

I would not be in this hobby if it were not for the Chinese online retailers.
As far as my Taranis goes, anything else that comes close would have cost as much as 3 times the price.
My quads are built from mainly Chinese parts and fly extremely well.
My FPV gear, all made in China.
My vote is still that they are helping, but you need to research what you buy, check reviews etc.

 

[overheadpowermower]

The Chinese are know for taking something great and mass producing it for a quarter of the cost. So here is the deal on HK and other knock off Chinese shops, if you value your bird, build with good reliable parts from a vender who supports their goods. I use HK for stuff that wont affect my birds like wire , heat shrink, and wire coverings. Everyone like to save money. I do like the batteries tat HK has, but then again it is a gamble. I have two 6s lipo's that have several hundred cycles on them and they still work great. But one of my new 3s took a dive right after the first flight.. sometimes ya win, sometimes ya don't.

 

[Cloudancer]

Hurting. I recently had a problem with a AR8000 receiver. It was DOA. I sent it back and the dealer says it's a knockoff send me the one I sent you. I said That is the only one I have and you sent me it. He said no it's not. I went to the resolution center on EBay and they reviewed the problem. I won and got my $58.00 back.
Beware, a lot off stuff on EBay is counterfeit.

 

[Smoggie]

The original AR8000 is almost certainly made in China too. For sure the Spektrum DX6 transmitter is because I have one right here and the box is clearly marked 'Made in China':

So IMHO it's a little unfair to blame China for the knockoffs without also giving them credit for all the genuine decent quality stuff they make, which would likely cost a lot more if made elsewhere.

 

[Tony]

As I have stated multiple times in this thread (which is 10 pages long I might add), this thread is about the china knock-off vendors. HobbyKing is the largest one that I know of, then you have all of the other ones out there that are doing nothing buy buying the real product and then reverse engineering it and reproducing it with crap quality metals and fiber.

Yes, there are a lot of companies out there that are using china because their labor is so much cheaper than it is here in the stated. BUT, they are using quality items to build whatever because they were TOLD TO. If someone didn't tell them to use good products in the manufacturing process, then EVERYTHING that came out of that country would be crap. They believe in Quantity over Quality. It's sad, but it's true.

 

[vimy]

As I have stated multiple times in this thread (which is 10 pages long I might add), this thread is about the china knock-off vendors. HobbyKing is the largest one that I know of, then you have all of the other ones out there that are doing nothing buy buying the real product and then reverse engineering it and reproducing it with crap quality metals and fiber.

Yes, there are a lot of companies out there that are using china because their labor is so much cheaper than it is here in the stated. BUT, they are using quality items to build whatever because they were TOLD TO. If someone didn't tell them to use good products in the manufacturing process, then EVERYTHING that came out of that country would be crap. They believe in Quantity over Quality. It's sad, but it's true.

Hello Tony, yes, it is a case of What Isn't Made In China. With that in mind a buyer has to carefully pick their way around what is on offer.

There is a huge variation in quality.

 

[Stambo]

[RANT]

I think a lot of people are being a little harsh on the Chinese.
I would not be in this hobby without them.
Sure there is a degree of junk that comes out of China but the same could be said for many other countries and as Vimy said you have to pick your way through it.
The Taranis is probably one of the more used TXs used at top level FPV racing because of it's solid link, low cost telemetry, voice alerts and other capabilities.
Many frames, motors, ESCs, flight controllers etc we use on our multirotors are made in China.
Most of the lower cost batteries are also made in China.
I have to wait up to a month for stuff to arrive from China but at sometimes less than a third of the cost compared to buying in New Zealand I will continue to do so.
The most important thing about buying from China is research, checking for reviews of the item you intend to purchase is critical.
If you are not prepared to do some digging to find what other people think, buy local.
Don't blame everyone else if you are too lazy to do a bit of research.
I have no intention of offending anyone here but I am a Kiwi and we say what we think.
I find it a bit hypocritical when people bag the Chinese yet they have so much of their stuff and have done for years without issue.
Maybe some without even knowing.
The DJI products are probably the best known example of Chinese innovation in multirotors.
I would love an Inspire for aerial video but I just can't afford it.
They have had their share of issues but without a doubt they have opened they eyes of many to the capabilities of this technology.
There are so many of us that would never have got in to this Hobby without Chinese equipment, give them a break.
And lets face it even if you don't buy Chinese, the competition has to bring the cost of local product down to compete.
If people wish to pay a premium for what they perceive to be higher quality, more reliable products they will continue to do so.
Just don't expect those of us on a limited budget to do the same.
As far as I am concerned China is most definitely helping.

[/RANT]

 

[Derek]

I have to agree with every word Stambo just ranted. There's no way that I could afford to do all that I've done without my HK purchases.

My first battery that I bought for my Trex 500 was an Outrage 6S 3000mah from my local hobby shop. It was $100. Shortly there after, I found HK....I found the same capacity battery for 1/3 the price and, 3 years later, Im still using it. Love it!

 

[RandyDSok]

I actually don't think anyone has been overly harsh or unfair in describing what to expect from the Chinese vendors or manufacturers as a whole... We've only called it exactly as we have seen it.... and spoke our minds about it. There are certainly good ones to purchase from providing good quality products, but they are not the majority and as Tony mentioned on average they tend to the quantity over quality mindset most of the time. If in order to get a good product you must thoroughly research them first... that alone speaks volumes. It isn't being overly critical of them... when it's saying it like it is.

 

[Smoggie]

As I have stated multiple times in this thread (which is 10 pages long I might add), this thread is about the china knock-off vendors.

Maybe the title should be 'Knock-off manufacturers, helping or hurting the hobby' ? It just seems a bit unfair to single out China specifically and then focus exclusively on the cheap junk that comes out of that country without balancing the argument with all the 'good quality at a affordable price' products that also originate there.


Anyway....On the subject of 'knock-off' manufacturers. I dont have a big issue with them providing they make it clear what you are getting and they dont try to pass it off as the genuine article. For instance if you buy a HK450 clone heli at $50 and it turns out to be cheap junk, then you really cant complain because you got what you paid for, what did you really expect?

On the other hand some low life makes pirate copies of the AR8000 and tries to sell them as the genuine article at near to genuine price, that's a different story.

 

[Cloudancer]

Hurting.

Any part bought out of China has a 70% chance of being counterfeit. Ask them if it comes in the original box and if the part is genuine. If they say no, ask why. This happened to me when I bought several Hubsan X4's for my grand children. When I got them, they were all counterfeit. I know this because I had bought a crash kit and that had all the correct marks and HUBSAN logo. I had asked these questions before I bought 5 of them. Well I opened up a claim with EBay and the next day my money was back in my PayPal account. Then the seller wants the drones back. I said send the shipping fee or RMA and I'll send them back. It's been over a year and I'm still waiting for the RMA.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe the title should be 'Knock-off manufacturers, helping or hurting the hobby' ? It just seems a bit unfair to single out China specifically and then focus exclusively on the cheap junk that comes out of that country without balancing the argument with all the 'good quality at a affordable price' products that also originate there.


Anyway....On the subject of 'knock-off' manufacturers. I dont have a big issue with them providing they make it clear what you are getting and they dont try to pass it off as the genuine article. For instance if you buy a HK450 clone heli at $50 and it turns out to be cheap junk, then you really cant complain because you got what you paid for, what did you really expect?

On the other hand some low life makes pirate copies of the AR8000 and tries to sell them as the genuine article at near to genuine price, that's a different story.

Had dealings with the same AR8000. This guy claims that you sent him a counterfeit receiver back and it's the only on in the house.

- - - Updated - - -

[RANT]

I think a lot of people are being a little harsh on the Chinese.
I would not be in this hobby without them.
Sure there is a degree of junk that comes out of China but the same could be said for many other countries and as Vimy said you have to pick your way through it.
The Taranis is probably one of the more used TXs used at top level FPV racing because of it's solid link, low cost telemetry, voice alerts and other capabilities.
Many frames, motors, ESCs, flight controllers etc we use on our multirotors are made in China.
Most of the lower cost batteries are also made in China.
I have to wait up to a month for stuff to arrive from China but at sometimes less than a third of the cost compared to buying in New Zealand I will continue to do so.
The most important thing about buying from China is research, checking for reviews of the item you intend to purchase is critical.
If you are not prepared to do some digging to find what other people think, buy local.
Don't blame everyone else if you are too lazy to do a bit of research.
I have no intention of offending anyone here but I am a Kiwi and we say what we think.
I find it a bit hypocritical when people bag the Chinese yet they have so much of their stuff and have done for years without issue.
Maybe some without even knowing.
The DJI products are probably the best known example of Chinese innovation in multirotors.
I would love an Inspire for aerial video but I just can't afford it.
They have had their share of issues but without a doubt they have opened they eyes of many to the capabilities of this technology.
There are so many of us that would never have got in to this Hobby without Chinese equipment, give them a break.
And lets face it even if you don't buy Chinese, the competition has to bring the cost of local product down to compete.
If people wish to pay a premium for what they perceive to be higher quality, more reliable products they will continue to do so.
Just don't expect those of us on a limited budget to do the same.
As far as I am concerned China is most definitely helping.

[/RANT]

The problem is that when you ask is the product comes in it's factory box and if it is genuine you get a yes.

 

[Tony]

I have been looking into this #KeepRcHelisAlive deal that was created by Bert Kammerer and in all reality it has hit home with me. Then today, I listened to the second podcast that Bert Kammerer and Bobby Watts has produced, and this time, they had the owner of Scorpion motors on their show. There was a lot of stuff said in that podcast that really made a lot of sense. And if you are wondering why I'm posting this in this article, have a listen by clicking on the link below... I will have more on this in future posts, articles and videos!

Podcast #2 – Georges Van Gansen « SmackTalk RC

 

[RandyDSok]

I'd come across this video a couple of weeks back and immediately thought of sharing it here.... just couldn't find the thread ( I'd searched everywhere but the articles area I guess )...

Anyway... this points out the differences seen in higher end German made and Chinese cloned bearings...