FBL Gyro Spirit Pro Set Up

[Heliman450]

Well done! Great to hear a successful story coming out of the Forum. Again thanks to Steve for the input on major issues and explanations. One question on my next step........................

How does one take a video of exactly what's on the PC screen or the best way to record 'Live' what's going on in the software? I've never been able to get a good quality video of the screen from my video camera.

Off to run through my final checks before my maiden a bit later on........................ watch this space.

 

[Heliman450]

So, another successful maiden. I managed to get to the field despite it threatening to rain, thunder and lightening! I took three batteries and was able to do some quite thorough testing (by my standards anyway).

 

[Smoggie]

Phil, congratulations on your maiden! two trouble free maiden flights in as many days is great news!!

For the screen shots i use Screen Hunter

 

[Harford]

Yes, well done Heliman. A far more extensive maiden than mine.

 

[Tony]

You could also use OBS Studio to do screen recordings. It's made as a broadcasting software for youtube and twitch, but it does really good at recording as well. It's what I use.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Tony, thanks for the feedback on OBS Studio. I'll have a look into it and see if I can put together a video (maybe a couple) to demonstrate the setup process. Steve, I already use Screenhunter for screen shots as per the recommendation you gave me some time back.

Up to now, I haven't been using the rescue or governor features of my two gyros, so maybe I'll need some help to get them online now that my flying skills have progressed and I'm about ready to begin crashing due to pushing the envelope rather than simple dumb thumbs.

Thanks to Harford for being able to steal a bit of his thread-time

One thing that was always frustrating me about the setup process was the guidance from within the Spirit software. It all seems too hit and miss to me........ the units have no relationship to what you're doing. Just giving a range doesn't seem like good information. So I did a bit of a test and discovered that when doing the 'Cyclic Ring Tuning' 10 units from the scale gave me a 1.4 degree change in the setting. In the 'Geometry' setting, 10 units gave me 0.8 degree change.

I'm currently using a higher setting than 6 degrees (10.0) and can only see an improvement in the stability. Hopefully, there's nothing nasty waiting for me when I start to do more adventurous flying. I also dropped my setting on the 'Flight Style' to #1 rather than the #4 given in the software. This was described as 'Most people use #4', again not exactly what I'd call good guidance. Enough of my ramblings..... off for a coffee

 

[Harford]

Heliman, I am interested in your comments on the Spirit set up. I left the Flight Style a #4 for no other reason than the manual rather suggested this was a preference. I am always chasing maximum control and stability so I have the Expo set up in the Tx at 30% each on Aileron and Elevator, and 15% on Rudder (in fact this is the set up I have for all of my helicopters). Does the flight setting in the Spirit software effectively negate the need (for me at least) for Expo in the Tx ? Also, can you tell me please how different is your heli to fly on #1 compared with #4 ?

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Harford, I'll try not to get in too deep and ramble. I'm interested to read Steve's comments on what I'm about to share with you. It wasn't until I joined the Forum and benefited from Steve's insight that my own understanding picked up a league or two.

With my change to FBL as the tech side raced ahead of my available time to spend learning the hobby, I too have pursued mastering the mysteries inside the little box riding on my helis. Although I knew a few extremely good flyers none of them could satisfy my thirst for knowledge. I quickly realised that they just didn't know the answers or didn't know how to explain it to me. So here goes.......

The FBL systems take over almost everything that was done in the transmitters and when making the transition it's very easy to introduce conflict between the two elements of the control system. At the moment, I've only accumulated just over 20 hours of what I call useful flight time so I'm not able to push the gyros to their limits and I have only been able to 'feel' the differences that changes make to the performance of the heli for less than half that time. I didn't really notice any difference with the Spirit Pro and it was only when I bought my 700X and chose the Bavarian Demon (the Axon was Steve's recommendation) to give me an opportunity to benefit from what seemed to be a better software interface after looking into it.

When I queried the B.D. guys regarding the different setup (6 degrees vs 9-10 degrees) in their instructions, the chap told me that I could set it for whatever I wanted but presumably they expected 9-10 to be the limit. Since then, I've used this approach with my Spirit Pro. Funnily enough, I was also using 70% D/R & 30% Expo in my Tx., too, but I noticed that when I did the checks on the PC with that value for the D/R, I was only getting 4.5 degrees of cyclic. My conclusion was that the 70% was restricting the gyros ability to deliver the 6 degrees that were programmed in.

The first part of my testing during the maiden was to leave the D/R and Expo alone. Of course, the heli is massively sensitive to the slightest twitch of the stick but I counteract this by using a high 'Dead-band' setting in the gyro. I can change settings via my Jeti Tx. in the field, so this helps tremendously. I currently have 70% D/R in the Tx. and 10 degrees cyclic geometry rather than 6. During my rather short testing period, I saw a massive increase in the stability of the hover from pre-overhaul performance. I was only testing for a little under 24 minutes of flight time, so early days in my opinion to say definitively.

Flight style is a bit more difficult really as I don't think my personal style (boring) is catered for anywhere. I don't think it's possible for anyone to judge the differences until they're capable of performing the most crazy stunts anyway. I tried the coaxial setting and it didn't 'feel' any different to me. Maybe I need a scale starting at -10 to see any difference or possibly an 'Auto-pilot' setting

Finally, I never use any D/R or Expo on the collective stick, only on the cyclic stick.

 

[Harford]

Hello again Heliman

Very interesting reading. I have struggled somewhat with the Spirit Manual and frankly feel that BeastX do a better job in this area (I have no experience with BD). The Spirit manual shortcomings have been more than offset by the expertise on this forum (this is a preamble to me asking for help with setting up the rescue/stabilisation functions on the Spirit !).

Understand your reference to to 6 degrees vs 9-10 degrees is the cyclic pitch setting – which I have dutifully set up at 6 degrees as per manual. I am not using any D/R, just expo as a means of reducing sensitivity to stick input. I need some education about dual rates, I understand it restricts servo throw, but unsure what the practical impact would be on a placid flier like me. However, I think you are saying the combination of more cyclic pitch (10 degrees) and D/R at 70% delivered an appreciably more stable heli.


Many thanks

 

[Smoggie]

I'm really not an expert on fine tuning in the Spirit because my setup didnt need much tweaking, but for what it's worth:

On cyclic I typically use 20-30% expo. Note though that some FBL controllers have expo set up in the FBL so in that case you dont need it in the Tx.
On rudder I start off with about the same expo but rudder seems to need very different values heli to heli, so I just adjust based on how it feels in flight.

'Flight Style' - All FBL controllers have a similar adjustment and most are a bit cryptic about what it does. If you hold the mouse pointer over the slider it brings up an explanatory dialogue box:


The wording isnt very helpful but if it works similar to the Vbar flight style setting what it really means is:

Low value = Soft n mushy
High value = Hard n sharp

I have just left mine at default '4' so cant really say how well this applies to the Spirit.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Harford, I'm yet to find a manual that I'd call excellent. Having written manuals and instruction procedures professionally, I usually end up re-writing the most important parts for my own learning process. I understand the pressures that exist when needing them to be produced to match an overriding schedule. No project manager would hold up a deadline to complete manuals. On the receiving end, I don't think many people bother to read them anyway as most people in the hobby can get through from previous experience.

With regard to D/R, I took some screen shots from my Jeti Tx., which I think shows it quite well. The Dual Rate setting is restricting the tilt (angle) of the rotor disc. The Expo is only affecting at what point the stick position begins to affect the tilt of the rotor i.e. you need to move the cyclic stick more off centre the higher the setting.

Have a look at the screenshots and get back.

 

[Harford]

Hi Heliman.

Thank you for the screen shots. I guess I am trying to understand from a practical viewpoint how different the heli will feel with 70% D/R on the Aileron and Elevator compared to 100%. The answer no doubt is for me to try it and find out ! I also wonder about the difference in applying D/R as opposed to travel adjust on those two servos (I am out of my depth here) ?

 

[Smoggie]

Dual rates just make the heli less responsive to stick movement. Personally i dont use dual rate because it limits the ultimate control response you have. I prefer exponential because it 'softens' stick response around the centre position but still gives you full response when you move the sticks hard over. If you want to do stunts or if you need fast response to get out of trouble with expo you still have it available, with dual rates you dont. Each to their own though, i know some people dont like exponential so it a matter of personal preference more than anything.

On a plane dual rates is exactly the same as adjusting travel, but on a heli it's a little different because the stick doesnt directly control the servos, you have FBL in-between.

 

[Harford]

Thank you Smoggie. I am a placid back yard flier, just hovering around and enjoying the 'presence' of that helicopter sitting up in the air in front of me (but not too close !) Hard stick movement in my case will only happen by accident. I only have experience with expo, and it suits me. Just wondering if adding a dual rate factor is going to add to my conservative flying style. Just repeating myself, but I guess the answer is to try it out. Thank you for explaining the difference between D/R and travel adjust.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Harford, another day for practice................ I still think of my sessions as practice as my capability isn't good enough yet for my personal opinion to change. At least I can go to the field and be pretty sure that the heli will come back in one piece.

So now that you understand the mechanics of D/R, I'll try a bit more to help you through 'feeling' it. The key word is practice................ for me that meant increasing the number of batteries I have for each visit to the field. The field is best unless your home is a sheep farm or something. In my earlier days I did a first test of my 450 of the day in the garage (single vehicle) so I understand what it means to have boundaries. Now that my building skills have improved and I can 'feel' the heli I could probably fly into it and out again although not turn round and come out. Too risky!

I practised for hours on the simulator until I could reliably lift off/land and hover around a bit. I can't say how many hours but lots. It's different with the real heli only because of the time you can spend and unless you can put two identical helis side by side and have access to an almost endless stream of batteries you'll never get the same time to practise with no interruptions to rebuild the heli.

1. Make sure you have enough batteries. Steve helped there by telling me about the 700 using the same batteries as my 550. My current six batteries work on both helis albeit that the 700 needs two.
2. Get out of your back yard/garden. I don't have one and can't just fly anywhere so I joined a local club. This is also helping with my integration into Swiss society as I was always working abroad before early retirement (3 years).
3. Get to the field as often as you can. I plan ahead using WeatherPro application with my phone. Think about how life is outside of your heli hobby and if you can squeeze more time then make it a priority.
4. Maximise the time you can use each battery for. I got a lot of help here on that one and extended my flight times by three times at the end. I can't go any further now without depleting the battery too much.
5. Once my fingers/thumbs were connected to my brain correctly, I found that the best way to 'feel' D/R and Expo is to put the heli into a hover about 1m above your head (not directly above) and far enough out to one side so that you can see it well.
6. Start with a more extreme number, I used 40% D/R at first and 20% Expo. Begin the exercise with small movements left/right and stabilise the heli again after each attempt left or right (I was using active stabilisation that made it easier).
7. When you can do it left/right a few times before needing to stabilise you can begin to do fore/aft. Don't forget to land as soon as you feel out of control or losing concentration. Have a drink (no alcohol) breath deeply for a a little while and go back to it.
8. Take breaks, do something a bit easier but keep at it. I can do six sessions of 9 minutes with the 550 (my favourite as trainer). I usually went early (07:00) when it was cooler and less windy (mostly still).
9. As you improve increase the D/R in 10% steps (or more if you feel ok with it).
10 From what you've said, I think you should start at 70% and spend enough time until you can use a battery without pausing doing a routine of left/right and fore/aft.

At some time during the above you will begin to 'feel' the reaction better. At that time go to the full 100% D/R and carefully feel the difference as it's so easy to tip the heli too far and panic. I also set my elevator to 40% for quite a while to restrict its tendency to zoom away (or return) way too fast. Fast is easy, slow is more difficult in my opinion. I also had to invest in a more expensive charger and also create a parallel charging system to prepare multiple batteries. My charger is unfortunately not quite man enough to charge the batteries at maximum rate but I can connect all six and have them ready in about 1hr 40mins. I can increase to eight batteries but it will take longer to top them off. To do more batteries and/or turn them round faster, I'll need a second charger.

On a final note, I think my charging setup at the moment is about the optimum I can manage. When I go to the field, I can do an early morning session, charge over the (enforced) 1.5hr lunch break and return for an afternoon/evening session or even both during the longer summer days. In practise, I really don't think this is practical with a life outside the hobby, too.

Good luck with your progress.

 

[murankar]

I have a pay for screen casting sotware by Pinnacle Studio. It works but again it costs money. If you want to do a screen shot I use snip-it tool in windows 7 and 10. it works great and make all your captures PNG files.

 

[Harford]

Hi Heliman

What a wonderful overview and targeted with pinpoint accuracy.

I have never used a simulator, despite the fact that almost everyone says you should do. Learned to fly with a fixed pitch heli then on to increasingly larger CCPM flybarred then FBL helis. My flying skills have stagnated simply because I don’t practice enough.

Just to comment on your points :

1. I don’t have anywhere near enough batteries, particularly for my larger helis (550 & 600). Same as you, batteries for these should be interchangeable. They are on the shopping list.
   
   
2. It is just easy to get to the back garden. I can be flying very quickly after making the decision to do so. But it is restrictive, ok for the 450s but not for anything bigger apart from a test low level hover. I sure this is not helping my skill development as I am so focused on not colliding with a tree, fence etc.
   
   
3. No excuses about the lack of a field. My daughter lives on a 10 acre block about 20 minutes drive from me (and this means facilities are available incl power etc). Vehicle availability not an issue.
   
   
4. My flight times average around 7 minutes (maybe 7.5) and then cell voltage is then between 3.75v and 3.83v. I just use the timer on the TX although I do have a telementary system which I have yet to install.
   
   
5. Thanks for the guidance about introducing D/R. I am looking forward to trying this. Note your comments about making progressive changes but presumably you should just settle on a position you are most comfortable with (which may well be less than 100% D/R).
   
   
6. I can relate to the early starts. Wind is an issue and early morning is mostly calm.
   

My PL8 charger with MPA can charge up to 6 batteries at a time but as I have not got that many batteries of one particular size, this is rather academic, for now at least.

Long summer days – I am looking forward to those (currently 5 degrees C outside !)


Many thanks again for all the trouble you are taking in providing such invaluable advice.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi murankar, thanks for the tip, I'll have a look into it. For the moment, I'm just finding out how to use OBS Studio being new to the idea of streaming etc. I'm fixed up with Screenhunter that works fine for me for screen shots.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi again Harford, the 20 minute drive sounds good and to a 10 acre block, I'm even tempted to join you........... shame that you're on the other side of the world

No problem with a daily exchange but my busy life prevents me from sitting at my laptop all day. I get to see the incoming contributions via my smartphone but tend to wait to reply until I'm back home again.

It sounds like you've taken a route similar to many to arrive at this point. Mine has been much different but I won't repeat it now as many others (mostly Steve) have a good picture of how it works from my point of view. Most important is to get you thinking a bit more out of the box.

We rent our accommodation as most here do. Three years ago, we also rented a hobby room/workshop that is 10 minutes drive away. I fly at our club that is part-way towards home. Each location is about 10 minutes drive away from where we live. We have a small grassed area at the workshop but I don't test anything bigger than a 450 there to avoid complaints from neighbours.

If your daughter wouldn't mind, why not change to doing everything but battery charging at her place and set yourself up to do most of your stuff there? Then your only decision is whether the weather (smile) is good enough to fly.

As I found out with my 700X in its very early test days temperature is most important. A set of landing gear shattered when I went to the field on a very nice (but cold) morning. I ended up making a cold weather set of landing gear, which works perfectly but doesn't look very cool. I also changed my summer landing gear (see photo). The 550 sits on skids from the 700 and the 700 on an elongated set that I made up from two 550 skids no longer in use. Neither heli sits on the original part number supports as I just bought what was in store and mixed and matched. It wouldn't bother me if the helis sat parallel to the ground. It would actually make setting up easier if they were.

This brings me to the reason why I've done this................. It always annoyed me when the heli tipped back without batteries fitted and despite doing a number of things it almost always caught me out. This doesn't happen any more and both helis sit ok without the batteries installed. Another added benefit is protecting the tail during landings and I'm all for that one. It doesn't happen with me most often any more but it's still possible for me to come in a bit low on the tail. In this instance the extended skids touch down well before the tail fin does and the heli tilts nicely forward onto its skids. It seems that almost all manufacturers favour just lifting the tail more off the ground by increasing the upwards tilt of the tail. Looks very sporty, but as I discovered didn't work for me as an inexperienced flyer.

Finally, on your point #5 I wasn't suggesting that one should make routine changes to D/R settings, I was only describing to you how someone searching for the elusive 'feel' can do it. It worked for me and now I'm 'feeling' my way to using the 'Dead-band ' setting in the gyro instead of Expo. Right now, I have a combination of both but haven't been to the field for a few days due to other commitments.

Bye for now!

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Harford,

I started a new thread on the Spirit Pro subject................ Rescue Function - Spirit Pro