FBL Gyro Spirit Pro Set Up

[Heliman450]

Hi all, looks like I've found the solution to an earlier thread here.

The Spirit Pro unit is making a conversion of the negative value from the Tx. to positive. See the three photos below that show the gyro status underneath the indicator band. When I made a change in the function to 'Rescue (Normal)' the blades snapped to + 5.5 degrees with a setting of 40% for the 'Rescue Collective Pitch', which increased to 7.0 degrees when I increased this to 50%.

I then changed the gyro setting to give +70% rather than -70% and the blades returned to my current minimum pitch curve setting for -1.6 degrees. The display returned to show display #3 with the gyro status showing 67% 'Head Lock'.

This means that I now have to find out how to pulse the -70% signal to activate the fixed blade pitch signal (now back to 40% and +5.5 degrees). I now know that there is no stabilisation function associated with the 'Rescue (Normal)' function.

 

[Smoggie]

Phil, the simple way to have a switch that activates rescue (with stabilty active when rescue is off) is to use the bank switching function. Just set one bank to rescue and the other bank to stabilisation then have a switch assigned to the channel that switches between banks. That channel is currently unassigned in the screen shots you provided but you have more than enough channels available in your Tx so it should be a problem to allocate a channel. A momentary (spring loaded) switch is best to prevent you leaving rescue activated.

Gain must be set to negative for both.

PS.. stabilisation is automatically enabled during 'rescue'. It's stabilisation that causes the heli to return to level flight when you hit rescue. The only real difference between stabilisation and rescue is that rescue adds collactive pitch so that the heli climbs.

 

[Smoggie]

PS.. the other way to switch between rescue and stabilisation is using the ability that was added at one of the last firmware updates, that is to allocate a channel that actually directly changes the Stabi function. That setting is buried away in the 'Function' list of the channel assignment tab.

PPS.. if you want no stabilisation when rescue is off then you can activate rescue with a switch that works with your mixing function in the Tx to set gain to negative. I can tell you exactly how to do this in a Spektrum Tx because that's how I have mine setup, but how to do it in a Jeti i have no idea.

 

[Smoggie]

Here are a few screen shots off my iPhone browser showing the Spirit wifi setup interfaced

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Steve, thanks for the follow-up and the screen shots.

I'm working through these options as you have responded. I'll be carrying on in the morning as I've been stung and bitten by at least three monster insects on top of which, I bashed my knuckle when changing the cutting blades on our club's tractor. Not serious but just enough to demotivate me for this evening. I've got the switching allocated and can activate the rescue. I relise that it's the stabilising function that works together with the rescue function but right now it returns to a normal HH value. I'll be setting up the banks in the morning.

Bye for now.

 

[Harford]

Thank your for your efforts in providing all this excellent information. Heliman, I am interested to know when you did these experiments, where your HH/Rate switch on your Tx was, ie had you selected Head Hold or Rate ?
I ask this because I keep reading that negative gain is required to activate stability and I have yet to understand how to do it and why it is necessary. The Spirit manual appear to say you can activate the Stabi function in two ways - one is with Negative Gain and the other is by using a separate channel. I am focusing on the latter.

I have run my own trials and this is restricted to activating Stability normal. These are the results.

In the Spirit Software, I have allocated a switch on my Tx which enables me to turn Stabilisation On and Off. I have selected Stabilisation Normal under the Stabi tab.

Keeping in mind that in my Tx, I have my gain set at 50%, that is +50% for HH and -50% for Rate, this is now what shows on the Diagnostic screen under the Gyro Bar :



With Tx Switch for HH/Rate in the HH Position and TX Stabilisation Switch turned On

50 % Headlock + Stabi



With Tx Switch for HH/Rate in the HH Position and TX Stabilisation Switch turned Off

50% Headlock



With Tx Switch for HH/Rate in the Rate Position and TX Stabilisation Switch turned On

49% Headlock + Stabi



With Tx Switch for HH/Rate in the Rate Position and TX Stabilisation Switch turned Off

49% Headlock


Does this make sense, and can I now simply leave my Tx switch in the HH position, turn the TX Stability switch on and go fly in Stability mode ?

 

[Smoggie]

The Spirit web site has a page detailing the complete gyro and stabilisation function setup options: Stabi mode - Spirit System Manual

So as i've said previously, negative gyro gain activates rate mode UNLESS you have a stabi function active (e.g. stability or rescue), in which case negative gain activated the stabi function ONLY. All the stabi functions have heading hold gyro mode with the exception of 'stabilisation- Scale' which has rate gyro mode.

Note again for clarity...... Once a stabi function (stability or rescue) is selected in the software negative gain no longer turns on rate mode, it only activates the stabi function.

 

[Harford]

Ok, thank you for your perseverance (and for the link - I had seen this previously).

So to answer my question, can I now simply leave my Tx switch in the HH position, turn the TX Stability switch on and go fly in Stability mode ?

Many thanks

Harford, Today at 9:34 AM Edit Report

 

[Smoggie]

So to answer my question, can I now simply leave my Tx switch in the HH position, turn the TX Stability switch on and go fly in Stability mode ?

No, I don't think so. For Stability to be active you need to have a negative gain signal. The negative gain acts as a 'switch' to activate whatever stabi function you have selected. As I understand it this is true even when you have a channel assigned to switch stabi function.

If you have stabilisation set in the Stabi menu then the switch that use select between HH and rate mode will now select between HH (no stabilisation) and Stabilisation. if Stabilisation has HH or rate tail gyro mode depends on which stabilisation option you pick, they are all HH except for 'stabilisation scale'. All rescue modes default to HH.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Harford, using your own words and understanding of the system here goes......................................

With Tx Switch for HH/Rate in the HH Position and TX Stabilisation Switch turned On - 50 % Headlock + Stabi

- YOU CAN FLY WITH STABILISATION - BE CAREFUL THAT THE 50% VALUE IS ENOUGH FOR THE TAIL AS YOU MAY NEED TO REFINE IT A BIT

With Tx Switch for HH/Rate in the HH Position and TX Stabilisation Switch turned Off - 50% Headlock

- YOU CAN FLY WITHOUT STABILISATION - AGAIN BE CAREFUL OF THE 50% SETTING

With Tx Switch for HH/Rate in the Rate Position and TX Stabilisation Switch turned On - 49% Headlock + Stabi

YOU CAN FLY WITH STABILISATION WITH STABILISATION - AGAIN BE CAREFUL OF THE 49% SETTING

With Tx Switch for HH/Rate in the Rate Position and TX Stabilisation Switch turned Off - 49% Headlock

YOU CAN FLY WITHOUT STABILISATION - AGAIN BE CAREFUL OF THE 49% SETTING

Provided the software display window under the gyro indicator in the 'Diagnostic' Tab shows "+Stabi" it will be available to you. For the pilot it's important to know how to toggle it on/off from the Tx. and you have multiple options for doing it.

Back to my setting up for more complicated options and many thanks to Steve for being so patient. I'm part way through the process and will let you know when I've achieved it in readiness for my video production.

 

[Harford]

Thank you both very much for this. Smoggie, can I ask you please how I achieve the negative gain signal to which you refer. I have a DX9. You have answered that what I have suggested will not work so I am trying to understand the specific steps required to make it work. It would be very helpful if you could tell me step by step what I should do now. I regret this imposition and I am sure I am testing your perseverance.
Again, Heliman, I am most appreciative of your response.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Harford, you have already achieved what you want but maybe not realised how you did it. I've been there myself with more than just my heli hobby

The negative signal comes from your transmitter's gyro gain. I also have a HH/Rate switch on my JRProPo so am familiar with the principle. Your "TX Stabilisation Switch" is providing you with an extra control to toggle stabilisation on/off. Let me give a couple of examples to try and help you think it through.

Using Point #1 - "With Tx Switch for HH/Rate in the HH Position and TX Stabilisation Switch turned On - 50 % Headlock + Stabi"

If you use this method you can fly with stabilisation as I said above. If you wanted to trim the tail response (as I cautioned about), then you would make the adjustment in your Tx. to alter the gain setting. You're already familiar with this from your arrangement pre-Spirit Pro. Let's assume you increase to give plus 60%. Nothing changes with the stability function, you still have it but the Spirit Pro is receiving a new, increased signal to trim up the tail. You can carry on flying with the stability working. Next thing you want to do is switch the stability off, so all you need to do is use your "TX Stabilisation Switch" and turn it off.

Using Point #2 - "With Tx Switch for HH/Rate in the Rate Position and TX Stabilisation Switch turned On - 49% Headlock + Stabi"

Once again, you can fly with stabilisation. However, when you make the same move to trim the tail setting in the Tx. it would be to minus 60%. You continue flying with the new setting and then use the "TX Stabilisation Switch" to turn it off.

The Spirit Pro makes the change internally to always give 'Headlock' as the default flying mode. It is this change that I missed in the upgraded versions that came after buying mine. When Steve mentioned his point to me some time ago about not understanding why anyone would want to fly in 'Rate' mode, I just followed 'orders' and went to 'Heading Hold' not realising that this had deactivated the stabilisation mode internally to the Spirit Pro. It didn't do me any harm, I just learned to do what I do without the stabilisation.

One thing to note is that there can be a slight difference in the numbers as you can see with the figures 50 and 49 in your examples. I've also seen this but have never bothered up to now to track it down, I normally adjust the Tx. setting to give the desired number in the unit.

Hope this helps to clear your log-jam.

 

[Smoggie]

Phil,

I think you may have one of those settings wrong:

With Tx Switch for HH/Rate in the HH Position and TX Stabilisation Switch turned On - 50 % Headlock + Stabi

It's my understanding that this would in fact result in stabi being off. For Stabi to be activated you have to have a negative gyro % value. If the HH/Rate switch gives a positive gyro value then stabi is turned off regardless of what stabi function you have set.

The stabi 'function' channel assignment only selects what type of stabi you have, not it it's turned on or off. The Gyro % + or - always acts as the stabi on or off 'switch'. this is all listed in the official Spirit stabi setup page I linked earlier.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Steve, I'll read through but note that they aren't my words. I've copy/pasted Harford's words, which I assumed are his observations in the software when he changes the switch positions he has programmed in.

 

[Smoggie]

Phil, I may have to eat my words, I think you are right, the channel assignment does appear to 'override' the gain setting. I'll read up some more, it's a feature I haven't used yet.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Steve, I just printed out the relevant pages from my user manual. Being an old fashioned kind of guy, sometimes I have to resort to holding pieces of paper in my hands to connect up all the little grey cells

 

[Smoggie]

Thanks for this Phil. i was misunderstanding how the new channel assignment on Stabi function worked but it's clicked now. Basically as far as activation of stabi functions negative channel values on the channel travel range work like negative gain values, simple enough once it clicked.

There is one setting i still differ on:

With Tx Switch for HH/Rate in the Rate Position and TX Stabilisation Switch turned Off - 49% Headlock

I believe this would in fact give rate mode, not headlock (no stabi)

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Steve, let's wait until Harford gets to read this on (his) Friday morning. Maybe he's misinterpreted the result. I know how easy that is when one doesn't have all aspects of the Tx., Rx. and Gyro fixed in one's head. I find this a bit when I don't do something for a while so I take notes and re-write user manuals etc. to help me keep it.

I'm looking at the 'Bank Switching' now after getting back from an early evening session mowing the runway at the club. I've had some very positive feedback since cutting it shorter with our new mulching mower tractor.

Maybe I'll get back to you on the Banks.

 

[Harford]

Gentlemen, thank you both for all this invaluable feedback. I have been through the settings again this morning just to ensure the information I have given you is correct. This was a bench trial, and stating the obvious, Tx on, heli initialized, Spirit connected to PC, software then opened. I can only confirm the results that I have already given you. Frankly, I do think those results make sense, on the assumption of course that 49% in the Spirit Software represents Rate mode. As you know, I have the gains in my Tx set at +50% (HH) and -50% (Rate). So when I am selecting Rate with the HH/Rate switch on my Tx, the Spirit Diagnostic tab is showing 49%.

Having said this, I think my assumption about the 49% is flawed. It states in the Spirit manual that rudder gain in the software is HH 1% to 100%, and Rate -100% to 0%.

 

[Heliman450]

Hi Harford, good morning from Switzerland. You've arrived at the next step of testing out the settings before flying.

You need to do a series of tests with the gyro disconnected from the PC. You probably already have but make sure that the motor has two wires disconnected. With everything powered up go through your switching options as described and watch the tail response to the stick inputs left and right. Make a move full left or right and release the stick. If the tail rotor blades stay at the limit and you can move the blades slowly left and right the gyro is producing a HH output. If they snap back to the middle position then the gyro is producing a Rate output.

Of course, you can't test the stability function until you fly but at least you can clear up any doubt about the mode being used.